We're Better Than This. Let's Keep It That Way.
by BeerMeAHottyToddy on Feb 10, 2012 3:30 AM EST
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Print[ED: Frontpag'd. Definitely worth a read and definitely something to think about.]
I don't like to post a lot of negative stuff here on the Cup. I always feel that people (read: other fans) look at negative comments on our blogs, message boards, and the like as fodder to point at how we bicker amongst each other and have such a "fractured fanbase". While I understand the reasons for some negativity around this program right now, I make a personal point of trying not to put too many negative comments, fanshots, or posts for all of the college sports world to see. If I get that mad, I usually sit down, make a drink, and find some other way to vent. Other people seem to vent in a different way.
That being said, I will not link the video that inspired me to write this fanpost. I would rather the assholes that made it not get any more views than they already have. I will, however, describe it and give you the information you need to find it if you would like to see it for yourself.
The YouTube video I'm referring to is an eight-minute-and-twenty-nine-second assault on Ole Miss' past and present. It begins by showing scenes from a 1963 Ole Miss game, complete with Confederate flags, band members dressed as Confederate soldiers, and former Governor Ross Barnett speaking to Ole Miss fans the day before he opposed James Meredith's entrance to the University of Mississippi. The video then segues into the James Meredith Riots, Confederate flags in Ole Miss' more recent history, racial slurs by a guy who appears to be an Ole Miss fan, and mascot/chant issues. Obviously, you can see what the intent of the video is. It is propaganda, and it is bullshit.
As I wrote in the title, we're better than this. We know it, the people who made that video know it, and rational outsiders know it. I know that most State fans are better than this also. This rant is not intended as a retaliation to that video; it is intended as a request that no one, Ole Miss or State fan, condone something like this that does nothing but make a significant population of the state that each fan base declares to have so much pride in look like a bunch of racist rednecks. We, as rational fans, know that to stoop to this level is to acknowledge that those of lesser intelligence have a point to be made. They don't. The people who made that video are ignorant and sad individuals with nothing in life in their present or future that holds any promise whatsoever. They are troglodytes.
For the record, I thought that the "Pastor Dan Mullen" video was all in good humor. I believe the rumors that Coach Freeze said Dan Mullen was an Atheist (which are mentioned in the described video) are false. Dan Mullen is not an Atheist, and even if he was that wouldn't make him a bad person. Being an asshole makes you a bad person, which may be the case, but I hate to see religion flung about between the fanbases like we're chimps with clumps of dung in our hands. Again, we're better than this.
The title of the aforementioned video is "Ole Miss - Tradition". These are the types of stereotypes that are continuously fought against by seemingly every Mississippian when they venture outside of the state's lines. Ole Miss and the state it resides in has a turbulent and controversial past, there's obviously no dancing around that. However, regardless of arguments about flags, songs, mascots, etc., I believe Ole Miss also has a great past and an even greater future.
I have faith, possibly to a fault, in Mississippi, Ole Miss, and its fans, and I honestly believe that our greatest enemy is ourselves. We don't need to direct ridiculous tweets toward student athletes, make a bunch of YouTube videos, or publicly masturbate in the form of billboards by declaring that people have entered a state we proclaim to be "ours". We can't control what other people say or do, but we can control what we allow our perception to be. We are at a critical juncture that dictates we take the high road (False sense of elitism: Check). People that get tired of taking the high road make stupid decisions, and we should continue to leave that to the professionals, like those that made this video.
This post probably contains punctuation issues, run-on sentences, and spelling errors aplenty. I don't pretend to have the blogging eloquence, intelligence, or wittiness of Ghost, Juco, Mexter, or Ivory Tower, but I do think that I can make a point when I feel it is needed. I hope it is well received. If you don't feel that I've used enough vitriol towards the comrades that created that video and the persons responsible for its inspiration, I'll leave you with a quote from a well known friend of the Cup that writes much better than myself and just about everyone else around SB Nation:
"What happens on the field between Ole Miss and State is likely destined to be nothing more substantial than tit for tat among inmates fighting for the bottom bunk. I've got no delusions about that, but if the maroon among you wants an admission, I absolutely believe in my heart and soul that Oxford is better than Starkville, better than State and better than whatever neurotic, petty jort sporting idiot on hold for talk radio thinks about those damn dirty Rebels. And if that happens to describe someone like you, then yes, we're better than you in fair Lafayette County."
This post is a Red Cup Rebellion FanPost. Please don't sue us.
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It's early in the morning, so my thoughts aren't clear or aligned, but to keep it simple: I'm torn.
On the one hand, I don’t want State to get the last word here, or ever. These types of videos are mean-spirited propaganda and insulting in some of the worst possible ways. So fuck the guy who made this video. Fuck him and his stupid fucking friends. He’s a simpleton and a shitstain, and I’d very quickly say this to his fat little face.
But….. on the other hand, I don’t want to retaliate in kind. I don’t want to deliberately mislead people or monger fear of Mississippi State (which is ultimately what State’s “Ole Miss is RAYCESS” gig is all about, making people afraid of Ole Miss as well as establishing some horseshit feeling of moral superiority). I don’t want to act like a petty child over the internet, playing a game of one-upsmanship with fans whose hatred of Ole Miss is so vitriolic and seething as to completely preclude them from rational thought on the subject. Such really is a pathetic way to go about life, assuming those who don’t cheer for your school’s football team are intrinsically morally reprehensible, as a coping mechanism for whatever your own life’s inadequacies may be.
In that sense, I kinda feel sorry for the guy who made this.
[Note: I haven’t watched the video, but I hardly need to. I’ve seen this shit before.]
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Sports are chaotic and stupid; and we're bad at them.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Feb 10, 2012 7:19 AM EST reply actions
No retaliation necessary
An in kind response (if possible) would do no good. That this video exists is a testament to a terrible idea by a State fan or fans. Unfortunately, the creators have failed to understand the reality that racism in Mississippi, as elsewhere, was and is not the product and legacy of one single institution. This video is suicide-bomber trollcraft.
The spectator is compelled to look directly down the road and into the middle of the picture. -Baldessari
Meredith
the Meredith issue was a state of Mississippi issue and not an Ole Miss issue. Ole Miss just happened to be where it played out because Ole Miss was the first major “white” University to integrate. If Meredith had decided to go to another majoy University in the state, the outcome would have been similar. While there is no doubt that among the protesters and rabble rousers opposing his entry there were Ole Miss people, there is also no doubt that there were people from other parts of the state. It was, as I said, a state wide issue. Since integration, Ole Miss has been no more racist than any other institution in the state. In fact, it could be argued with some reason that as the first to integrate, Ole Miss is the least racist. However, the matter of degree there would be minute at this point. That past has been overcome and all the universities in the state embrace people of all races and cultures. Some point to Chucky Mullins as a turning point in the emotional integration of Ole Miss. Instead, I submit that the way the University embraced Chucky is more an indication of how far the state of Mississippi had advanced since the first days of integration. I also submit that the state has advanced even more since then. Of course, no one should rest until the ugle spectre of racism is eliminated everywhere, but Ole Miss and the state of Mississippi (including all institutions of higher learning in the state) no longer have any race issues beyond that which is typical everywhere. Patrick Willis and Eli Manning are the same color—blue and red.
What's so sad is that the assholes who make videos like this don't realize that
they only end up hurting all of us Southerners. They think they’re making themselves look better, when really they’re just covering everything in shit.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Sports are chaotic and stupid; and we're bad at them.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Feb 10, 2012 9:15 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I haven't seen the video
nor do I want to. This state has come so far in race relations. I’m so tired of all the bs. This stuff is the reason we wasted so many years. Please, please let this crap go. This is the reason we’re last in the good, and first in the bad. I truly pity the idiot (s) who made the filth. It doesn’t matter who you pull for. This is our home. It’s bad enough that all these carpet bagging yankees talk so much crap about us, don’t give them extra ammo. In the words of the great philosopher Danny Glover, " I’m too old for this shit!"
by The Tupelo Flash on Feb 10, 2012 9:41 AM EST reply actions
It only bothers you if you let it.
We need to let any crap coming out Stankvegas go. We shouldn’t dignify any of their propaganda, billboard tom foolery, or ass hat posts with a response. Just ignore it like the stupid shit that it is and it will go away.
Or we could just win and that would help a little too.
That "cowbell" has been rung...over and over and over for the past 50 years.
Exercise in futility.
by KatieScarlett on Feb 10, 2012 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
It's just sad.
I’d really like the Egg Bowl every year be for the SEC West title like the Iron Bowl usually is. It’s things like this that make athletes abandon the State Schools for LSU and Alabama.
Graduated University of Mississippi Leonard McCoy School of Medicine, 2481
by SkylarkThibedeau on Feb 10, 2012 10:01 AM EST reply actions
i haven't watched it either, but just reading it makes my skin crawl.
i’m assuming this asshole has never left the state of Mississippi, because it is an uphill battle when you get outside the south. shit like this puts us 3 steps back. and what’s even more terrible is that it’s someone within our borders doing this. no, you aren’t making your DAWGZ look superior and accepting of all creeds and kind by putting out this video. the only thing you are accomplishing is making the state as a whole look like one big asswipe. i love Mississippi. i love the Ole Miss-State rivalry.. that’s what makes collegiate sports so fun! but there are times where you lay down your arms and stand united against some shit and this is one of them.
Ole Miss: Shooting Ourselves in the Foot Since Always
by Sideline Snead on Feb 10, 2012 10:10 AM EST reply actions
"A wizard is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to."-Gandalf
by Mexter Dccluster on Feb 10, 2012 10:25 AM EST reply actions
These assholes just do not get it.
There is a world beyond our rivalry. Beyond the distance it takes to travel from Oxford to Starkville, is Mississippi. It may not have the best reputation, but damn it I love it. My family has been here for a very long time, and I would not have it any other way. I’m in my seminar class, and about to enter Grad school. My main focus is Civil Rights, and I know just how much this state has been through. These assholes just don’t get it. I have been all over the country, and every time people hear my accent people get excited until i tell them I’m from Mississippi, then the questions come. "Do you all have electricity, Do you all still hate Black people, etc. These idiots keep fueling these people. “Mississippi is like my mother. I am allowed to complain about her all I want, but God help the person who raises an ill word about her around me, unless she is their mother too.”
In my body, where the shame gland should be, there is a second awesome gland. True story.
by Duece's accoutant on Feb 10, 2012 10:25 AM EST reply actions
I'm a nonnative to MS
But when people see that James Meredith footage, people don’t think that it is/was just ole miss, or even just mississippi, they think it’s the entire south. Simply putting the ole miss logo over the footage doesn’t limit the effect. And we wonder why people get educated and leave the southern states where they grew up to pursue lives and careers elsewhere.
The spectator is compelled to look directly down the road and into the middle of the picture. -Baldessari
by Old HWY 6 on Feb 10, 2012 10:55 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
What those people need to see is
footage of James Meredith today walking through the Grove at most home football games proudly wearing his Ole Miss Rebel hat and being stopped every few feet because someone want to talk with him.
Absolutely. But at the same time, there's no limit
to what people should see in response to this video. Ole miss is a great place and has a great reputation, despite its history, and Meredith’s presence past and present is a big part of that.
Why this video is so nefarious is that it harms the state whose laws I steward and a culture/region that many dearly love.
The spectator is compelled to look directly down the road and into the middle of the picture. -Baldessari
A very good point.
I graduated from Little Rock Central High, which was the first major public high school to desegregate in the South. Some try to claim that because of the riots that surrounded the desegregation, the event should be seen as a mark of shame. But instead of focusing on the riots, I instead take pride in the nine black teenagers who heroically marched into my high school.
The integration at Ole Miss can be viewed in a similar light. While it is certainly important to acknowledge and be accountable for the injustice perpetuated by many members of our university that day, it is equally important to take pride in the courage of James Meredith
That was a called play, and I called it Brotha!!! HYYAAAAAAAA!!!!!!
by Catfish Powe-boy on Feb 10, 2012 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
there are two really good books about little rock
written by john a. kirk that i’ve recently read. the “crisis” was a series of events that took more than two years to play out and kirk demonstrates that the conclusion of which was nowhere near as clear cut as popular perception likes to make out.
SB Nation's The Historical: Because all those games way back when matter.
To quote the great movie "WarGames"
“The only winning move is not to play.”
There’s no rational end to shit like this, it just gets progressively more crazy, immature, and stupid.
by JimHalpert on Feb 10, 2012 10:25 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
Things would not have turned out any different if Meredith had chosen to enroll at MSU.
That’s what really gets to me. I get the impression that people who perpetuate this garbage truly believe (or they’re at least willing to push their twisted agenda) that the University of Mississippi – at the institutional level – was and always will be a “racist school,” as though Mississippi State circa 1962 or anywhere else in the south was a sanctuary of racial harmony. Racism is the product of ignorance and no one has a monopoly on that. I don’t say that to mitigate the way people reacted to Meredith’s enrollment. The fact is that, for many people, that was the misguided way they saw the world then.
But Meredith’s enrollment was more than “Ole Miss v. Meredith.” It was “racist white people v. Meredith.” And I’m not giving people at Ole Miss a pass on that, but Oxford became the rallying point for Jim Crow. Don’t take my word for it, though.
This is from the New York Times’ October 2, 1962 edition:
“A hard core of 70 to 100 youths, most of whom appeared to be Ole Miss students, touched off the riot. They were soon joined by students from other universities and colleges in this area. Youths and men from Lafayette County, of which Oxford is the seat, and from surrounding counties joined the fray. Some members of the mob wore jackets from Mississippi State University, at Starkeville, and Memphis State College, in Memphis.”
http://movies.nytimes.com/library/national/race/100262race-ra.html
And Jan Robertson, who had been a student at the time, had this to say when intereviewed years later:
“I remember there was a wire photo that appeared in several magazines and there were Mississippi State University students who were throwing rocks at troops. They had Mississippi State University on the backs of their jackets and the cut line said, Ole Miss Students Throw Rocks. It was…as if we were the only people who were involved in it.”
“The University was trying to remain calm, to encourage the students to remain calm, not to become violent….[O]n the other hand, state leaders and officials were encouraging this attitude of we’re fighting back, we’ve got to stand up and fight for, you know what I believe in, and you know I’ll fight them all the way down. Uh, there was a very different message coming from the University and from uh state officials.”
“And it was for, for those who came on the campus from all over. I mean from surrounding states. It just happened that Ol[e] Miss happened to be the battleground. Uh, and this was the chance to fight for states’ rights for the southern way of life and uh for all those people that you know, that just wanted to fight back, they chose Ol[e] Miss as the place to do it. Uh, before it was over, there were a small majority, a small minority really of students who were there, uh, but people from all over, they had been called in, there were some of the radio stations in Mississippi and in Alabama, that it said go to the Ol[e] Miss campus. You know fight, you know for our way of life, don’t let them shove us around. Uh, and they came. And they came, they came ready to fight.”
http://digital.wustl.edu/e/eop/eopweb/rob0015.0505.088janrobertson.html
Anyone who tries to look down at anyone else in righteous indignation by comparison is either completely ignorant or intellectually dishonest. It was a societal problem. To an extent, it always will be. Sorry for the long post, but this gets to me.
by DTMB on Feb 10, 2012 11:10 AM EST reply actions 13 recs
You get a rec
Very well done, Check out American Insurrection, and the price of defiance
In my body, where the shame gland should be, there is a second awesome gland. True story.
by Duece's accoutant on Feb 10, 2012 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
I'm sure the State boys were shouting "This is OUR state!"
...I'm probably in Hume Hall
by Nerd the Rebel on Feb 10, 2012 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
there is a difficult moral line here, though
while you are certainly correct in identifying segregation and the bigotry it expressed were a societal problem, there is a danger in using that as a catchall excuse for the actions that occurred. f
very specific actions transpired that responsibility for must be taken by those who today associate themselves with that institution. for ole miss, this is the james meridith riots. as a comparative example with my team, alabama, it is the riots that followed autherine lucy’s enrollment and george wallace’s “stand in the schoolhouse door.”
SB Nation's The Historical: Because all those games way back when matter.
DTMB is not exhonarating Ole Miss and its students from blame.
In fact he specifically states:
…And I’m not giving people at Ole Miss a pass on that
His point is not that Ole Miss did not share in the injustice of those riots, but in fact that we shared in that injustice. This was not an isolated incident unique to the University of Mississippi. It was part of a much larger movement throughout the South, and for Ole Miss to shoulder 100% of the blame is both unfair and unrealistic.
That was a called play, and I called it Brotha!!! HYYAAAAAAAA!!!!!!
by Catfish Powe-boy on Feb 10, 2012 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
i'm not saying he did
i’m just pointing out the distinction.
SB Nation's The Historical: Because all those games way back when matter.
Fair enough.
Carry on.
That was a called play, and I called it Brotha!!! HYYAAAAAAAA!!!!!!
by Catfish Powe-boy on Feb 10, 2012 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
Thank you.
I tried to make my position clear. I also said:
I don’t say [no one has a monopoly on racism] to mitigate the way people reacted to Meredith’s enrollment.
I could have been clearer about what I meant. Thank you for giving me the chance to clarify, kleph.
Over the line.
People who do things like this are the worst kind of people not because they have so much hatred for one particular group (our University) but because they are setting the rest of the State, nay, the whole Region behind once again. Because they are using a public forum that far reaches just the great state of Mississippi.
Travel anywhere in this country and meet people. Tell them you are from the South. Some of those people, perhaps the less knowledgeable ones, will ask you how the racial ties are in the South or how bad is it in the South.
“Oh no. Things are wonderful down there. We are much more educated and accepting and more tolerating and much more cultured then before. We are progressing forward.”
“Oh really? What was that video that CNN posted that some guy made down in Mississippi? Seems like you guys can’t quite get there?”
A scenario like this is not out of the question.
This person doesn’t think about things like this when they are “editiing” and posting a video to a social media format where the whole Country can see. Maybe he doesn’t care. Maybe he doesn’t realize. Maybe he is just thinking about how “AWESOME” it will be when TSUN catches wind of it. Either way, the person is the worst kind of scum. He’s setting us all back. Even his own beloved school and team.
It would have been different for him to make a “Shit Ole Miss People Say” video or a blooper reel/gif of that center stepping on Eli’s foot during the last play of the 4th Quarter of the ’03 LSU with the caption “FAIL” underneith it. But not this kind of shit.
I came from California as a young kid of only 10. I moved to Memphis and lived there till age 13 when I settled in North Mississippi. Now I live in Alabama but I will always call Mississippi home and I will defend our progress till the day I die. The entire State AND the entire South. Not just one particular section. These people need to learn what dignity, dedication, and overall class are all about.
In short, stop doing shit like this and just be a fan.
by Marty McReb on Feb 10, 2012 11:18 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
My thoughts:
The notion that racism is confined to one region of the state, or more specifically one fan base, is so absurd it needs no further explanation. As some have noted above, had Meredith chosen to attend Mississippi State, there is no doubt that an almost identical series of events would have transpired. For anyone to argue differently is simply naive.
However, this video is indicative of a much larger problem then the petty bickering between Mississippi’s college football fans. It represents the tendency of white Americans to ignore the existence of racism in their own lives. No doubt hundreds or even thousands of YouTubers across the nation will watch this video and say “Look at these rednecks in Oxford who are still racist,” all the while ignoring the racism within their own communities, and more importantly themselves. While it certainly does not present itself in the dramatic or explosive fashion of the Meredith riots, racism continues to permeate many aspects of American society. Pointing and laughing at Ole Miss for the YouTube video or the Klan rally is an exercise in projection that allows one to isolate racism to “somewhere down there” (or “up there” for a certain directionally unique area of the country).
That was a called play, and I called it Brotha!!! HYYAAAAAAAA!!!!!!
by Catfish Powe-boy on Feb 10, 2012 11:28 AM EST reply actions 5 recs
Rec'd
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Sports are chaotic and stupid; and we're bad at them.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Feb 10, 2012 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
So true. Unity.
The spectator is compelled to look directly down the road and into the middle of the picture. -Baldessari
this is an incredibly important point
and something that affected a number of football programs across the country following the civil rights struggle. there was a deeper understanding about racism nationally due to the attention paid to teams who struggled to integrate in the late 60s and early 70s. many blacks on teams that had long-since integrated recognized the unfair biases against them. one of the most famous incidents was at syracuse in 1970 when nine black players boycotted the team for the season.
SB Nation's The Historical: Because all those games way back when matter.
State's Harvey Updyke
I have not seen the video and will not take the time to watch it.
This is an example of another duchebag who has done nothing with their life, personal insecurity and jealously dominate their pathetic existence.
by hotstove97 on Feb 10, 2012 11:41 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Self-esteem
I have it. It’s a great thing too, since I’m in sales and deal with rejection on a daily (sometimes hourly) basis. No one amongst us is perfect, so it’s good to have a dash of good ol’ self-worth to get you through those times when you flub up. I have no problem laughing at myself, laughing at my friends, or laughing at (insert favorite athletic team here), especially when deserved. I’m not so small-minded to thank that I am above derision or even criticism. I have friends that clown Ole Miss for many things, and it’s easy to go back and forth with them on THEIR team. I like and welcome good banter as long as it comes from a good place or is at the least simply funny enough to make me laugh.
If State wanted to retaliate to the “Pastor Dan” things in a funny way, I’d probably have gotten upset for about two seconds then LOLd and LMAOd. I can take a joke and so should we all because, frankly, life is just too damn short to expend energy on minute internet outrage. God knows enough has happened to this program that’s LOL-worthy. To take it to this level though is low and completely uncalled for. I’m not going to go into all the things it is because y’all have done a good job of that already. We know that it is what it is. It does sadden me that THIS is the place someone has to go to grind for their state. It’s the same guy on the playground who’s looking for a “OH YEAH WELL YOUR MOM HAS AIDS” killshot at the end of any losing verbal sparring match.
You’re right: we ARE better than this. I don’t support someone doing the same thing back to State because you’re just giving them what they want. If you want to do it in an amusing, t least semi-intelligent way, then so be it. But I won’t support this kind of nuke attack (not that I am the judge of all this is good and clean on the internet).
I’d like to point out that no one knows for sure what Freeze say in that living room expect those recruits, their families, and Coach Freeze. Matt Wyatt sure as hell doesn’t. Nice lemon juice highlights by the way, Matt.
I hope I made some sense in these words. I love your show, and I’ll hang up and listen now.
by Sherlock_Spurlock on Feb 10, 2012 11:57 AM EST reply actions
I haven't watched the video, but
I’ve seen several State circle jerks over the video on certain websites. The State fans reveling over this were, IMO, some of the less crazy of their online base. Until they saw this video and proceeded to join their mouth breathing counterparts in calling us all racists and proceeding to inform everyone of their governor defying basketball team. I’d always thought that the idiots in their camp were a vocal minority, but I’m starting to suspect the idiots are the large majority.
Holding a snocone sign...
by hottytoddy07 on Feb 10, 2012 12:01 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Guh.
First of all, people posting YouTube comments saying, “Well, prove to me Dan Mullen IS a Christian!”, YOU’RE NOT FUCKING HELPING.
As a prick, bi-coastal elitist type, though, let me reaffirm the contention that nobody outside the South is busily dividing SEC country up into little groups. When I leave the South, I never hear any of my myopic, “I’ve only lived in NYC-DC-BOS-LA-SF” type friends or family say, “Oh, Ole Miss people are racist, but Georgia Bulldogs, they’re OK!”. We’re one big cousin-fucking Klan rally down here, and for all the progress the entire region has made in one generation, this kind of nonsense helps it all get walked back. It’s not a black eye to Ole Miss, it’s a black eye to the entire fucking region. Thanks, random asshole ’State fan, for perpetuating the stereotypes about the South. Good job. Take a bow.
Of course, this really isn’t helping Cap’n Starkville’s cause, since if non-Southerners have problems differentiating the states, for frig’s sake, they’re not going to be making distinctions between in-state institutions.
Thankfully, I don’t think enough people REALLY care about the “bottom bunk” pissing match for this to become viral in any meaningful capacity, but, I’ve been wrong before.
by HandsomeSam on Feb 10, 2012 12:02 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
This is a very important point to make.
I work for the federal gubmint. I regularly interact with people from literally every one of America’s 50 states. While a lot of people who are learned and experienced do understand that individuals rarely conform to stereotypes and that these sorts of cultural distinctions are highly nuanced, most people aren’t so astute. Most people want things to fit into nice, ridigly defined categories. “TEH SOUF IS WAYCESS” counts as such, and this only plays into that.
The people who made this video, though, couldn’t give a shit. They’re the types to cut off their nose to spite their face. They’re the types who hate Ole Miss more than they love Mississippi State.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Sports are chaotic and stupid; and we're bad at them.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Feb 10, 2012 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
Attitude
I am really growing weary of State’s attitude that “We are good. Ole Miss is bad.” Not “bad” in the sense that we suck at sports, because we do (We lost to State in men’s basketball, softball, and tennis yesterday.), but “bad” in the sense as evil.
I tweeted last night “I truly believe State fans believe this game is a battle between good and evil.” And it’s really true!
I am around State fans on a pretty regular basis, and if I start to make any Ole-Miss patriotic statements it’s like the air got sucked out of the room. Meanwhile, I have to marinate in praises of the great and well-spoken Booby Dixon. It is wearisome.
...I'm probably in Hume Hall
by Nerd the Rebel on Feb 10, 2012 12:29 PM EST reply actions
And for the record: Take the high road, people. I troll on State a good bit. That's part of the rivalry.
But let’s keep the perspective that we are cheering for teams, and our competition should stop at that.
...I'm probably in Hume Hall
by Nerd the Rebel on Feb 10, 2012 12:32 PM EST up reply actions
agreed 100%
i love the rivalry when it is pertaining to our collegiate athletics. this shit is ridiculous.
Ole Miss: Shooting Ourselves in the Foot Since Always
by Sideline Snead on Feb 10, 2012 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly.
It is irrational to think that people – much less entire institutions – fit in neat little generalized boxes with labels that apply to everyone to establish a clear hierarchy of who is better than who, like the man who said that “MSU students were second-class citizens.”
By the way, that man was James Meredith. He said that while he was speaking before a group of people at MSU. Technically, he was talking about the 60’s, but still. My point is that it is juvenile to think Ole Miss or MSU or Mississippi or the southeastern region of the U.S. or any single place is “bad” or singularly responsible for society’s problems. As a whole, society has a unhealthy surplus of ignorant assholes who are completely oblivious to how ignorant they are.
That's pretty creepy that you really believe that.
I think that says a lot more about you than it does any State fan.
by Archdog Von Hungelow on Feb 10, 2012 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
…says “Archdog Von Hungelow”
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by charlym on Feb 10, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Exactly
I don’t take any of this stuff too seriously. And no one else should. If you get personally invested you start having crazy beliefs that will affect your mental health.
by Archdog Von Hungelow on Feb 10, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
In fact, you take it so not seriously
that you signed up for SB Nation, joined your rivals school’s blog and then said “Nu uh.”
Yes. Thanks to you, I now realize that Red Cup Rebellion clearly takes things much too seriously and I, along with all of us, need to loosen up. Your insight is impeccable and much appreciated.
"A wizard is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to."-Gandalf
by Mexter Dccluster on Feb 10, 2012 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
Glad you see it my way.
My siblings went to Ole Miss, so the above mentioned poster really believes that I see my own Brother and Sister as some sort of agents of evil, while I’m a Paladin of Virtue? Come on that’s just stupid.
I had another SBNation account but i’ve forgotten the password and username. Easier to just start a new one. I’m more bored but yes I do keep up with things Ole Miss. Being the youngest of my siblings I’ve spent a lot of time in Oxford over the years.
by Archdog Von Hungelow on Feb 10, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions
It is not stupid.
I’m sure you don’t feel that your siblings are agents of evil, but the collective psyche of the fan base of which you are a part does feel that way about the collective psyche of the fan base of which your brother and sister belong.
I have known many people who are good and friendly and etc, but by the end of their first semester at State have turned into GTHTSUNners. Many of which feel obligated to share any accomplishments of the university (which is good, and I support these academic accomplishments) and turn their noses up at anyone who shares accomplishments of Ole Miss.
I feel that the focus of State’s marketing is hate towards others, and it seems lately that OM, Southern Miss, etc are starting to reciprocate.
...I'm probably in Hume Hall
by Nerd the Rebel on Feb 10, 2012 4:26 PM EST up reply actions
It really isn't how you perceive
But there are certainly people who make generalizations. Do I really care when people call me a redneck farmer because I went to State? No. If you run across some dumbasses just ignore them. And message boards/twitter/facebook/youtube are pretty much one big minefield full of them.
by Archdog Von Hungelow on Feb 10, 2012 4:32 PM EST up reply actions
Cool story bro
"A wizard is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to."-Gandalf
by Mexter Dccluster on Feb 10, 2012 3:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
A timeout to applaude my fellow Cuppers.
I would say that on almost any other sports blog on the intertubes this issue would devolved into a mess of name-calling and ignorant, poorly-spelled attacks on our rival institution. Instead what we have is an intelligent, thoughtful discussion on the shortcomings of race relations in our state and region as a whole. Proud to be a Cupper.
Hats off to you all.
That was a called play, and I called it Brotha!!! HYYAAAAAAAA!!!!!!
by Catfish Powe-boy on Feb 10, 2012 12:35 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
That's because "We are Ole Miss"
the real, true meaning of the phrase!
by KatieScarlett on Feb 10, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
WELL SAID.
This is why I love this blog so dearly. It’s nice to come to a place with clever humor with solid perspective from a group of REAL fans who are REALLY dedicated to their school, their State, and their teams. Open discussion with intelligant commentary, I love it. I’m glad The Cup has been able to avoid other types of message board fodder and other language only used by tween girls.
Thank you Red Cup.
No. Thank you.
Without the commenters, this site would be pretty boring.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Sports are chaotic and stupid; and we're bad at them.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Feb 10, 2012 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
Don't sell yourself short, it would be tremendously boring.
tywebb’d
by OxpatchReb on Feb 10, 2012 9:53 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i find this troubling
because any fan of any team in the southeast or southwest conference should be concerned with the legacy of segregation at their university and the unpleasant record of integration for their football team.
the founder of the white citizen’s councils was robert patterson, a former football star at mississippi state. so what? that doesn’t make MSU more complicit than anyone else nor does it doesn’t counter any argument a bulldog fan may make about ole miss’s record on race relations. it simply underscores the fact their program was also caught up in the civil rights struggle as well.
i am currently working on a research project looking at the integration of the university of alabama’s athletics. one things i’ve learned is that quick stereotypes made about anyone in these matters are as misguided as they are prevalent. football provides an important window into the mindset of people struggling with a titanic social change and that’s for better and for worse.
my feeling is that if we really want to make the sacrifices made by people to stand up against these wrongs and to atone of the misdeeds of our forbears we need to stop arguing about who was more in error back then and start trying to learn from a painful era in our nation’s history.
SB Nation's The Historical: Because all those games way back when matter.
by kleph on Feb 10, 2012 1:11 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
This was a great post.
And I won’t be going to look for the video, much as I want to call them idiots, because that’s probably what they’re hoping for, and it really is just stupid in itself and accomplishes nothing. But what really bugs me is that this comes from other Southerners. I expect garbage like that from certain segments of Northerners who have probably never been south of Baltimore who want to feel high and mighty and bash the terrible evil racist South but to see it come from your own people is just baffling.
I believe Ole Miss has the best looking girls any college in the country... -Raylan Givens, Justified
MS is MS
Nobody outside of the SEC knows or cares about the UM-MSU dynamic. Law vs. Farming, Rich vs. Poor, etc. Nobody in Chicago knows the difference between OM and State, few have ever heard of either school. I hardly ever tell anyone I went to “Ole Miss”, I have to say UM.
To many outside of the South: Mississippi State = Ole Miss less Eli Manning.
Not a soul will walk away from that video thinking anything other than “Mississippi had problems with integration and may still be full of assholes”. And to those outside of the SEC: OM=MSU=Mississippi.
by WrigleyvilleReb on Feb 10, 2012 1:44 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Even better....
When Mississippi State or U.S.M. are playing on TV, someone invariably calls them ‘Ole Miss’ before the broadcast is over.
Graduated University of Mississippi Leonard McCoy School of Medicine, 2481
by SkylarkThibedeau on Feb 10, 2012 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
First of All
The term State is a nickname for MSU, everyone knows that. “Our STATE” is a holisitc campaign meant to showcase achievements of MSU. Not every thing is about you. Does Dan Mullen disrespect Ole Miss by calling you TSUN, yes. Does it mean that every thing that comes out of his mouth is directed at Ole Miss, no.
I don’t like the ‘YouTube" wars of 2012 or whatever this is evolving into but it is what it is. It’s just mud slinging. You can’t deny Ole Miss fans troll facebook looking for things to blow up into a national story. Remember Pony Gate, which was started by an Ole Miss fan copy / pasting from a 18 year old kids facebook wall. It hit Huffington Post. Again some deranged Ole Miss fan took it upon himself to create two YouTube videos and tweet them to over a hundred local, state, and national media figures. Well some deranged State fan answered. I’ve watched all the videos, they’re dumb. All of them, and frankly I’m pretty sure nobody outside of Ole Miss or State fans could care less.
And for the “Everyone will think we’re Racist crowd”, crawl out from under you’re rock, they already do. Is it fair, no, but you better get used to it. Part of being from Mississippi.
by Archdog Von Hungelow on Feb 10, 2012 3:22 PM EST reply actions
Comparing a recruiting violation
to an idiotic smear campaign is not equivocal. You think if a Clemson commit had bragged about going to a strip club, SC fans wouldn’t have posted it? There is a very clear distinction between rival fan bases pointing to recruiting violations and trying to reinterpret history to denigrate one school as a beacon for racists.
As far as your last paragraph, methinks you need to read the comments more closely, Hungelow.
Carry on.
"A wizard is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to."-Gandalf
by Mexter Dccluster on Feb 10, 2012 3:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I guess you missed the first two OM Fan produced videos this was in response to?
Looks it’s stupid. But so is someone creating two videos trying to show Dan Mullen as not being Christian. Which are / were part of another idiotic smear campaign. And for the record he’s Catholic.
And yes I’ve noticed a lot of people understand the reality of being from the South.
by Archdog Von Hungelow on Feb 10, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
I agree about the Pastor Dan Mullen video, but Pony Gate is not the best example for comparison.
...I'm probably in Hume Hall
by Nerd the Rebel on Feb 10, 2012 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
Well the 2nd Video was about Pony Gate
Which is what makes it relevant. Obviously whoever made the videos thinks they’re funny. Obviously the guy who made the Racist video didn’t. That’s the magic of the internet I guess. I still don’t get why one person feels like they need to make it their personal mission to deride either a Head Coach or University. I’d much rather see the makers of these videos outed and completely shamed into submission than each side escalate the responses.
by Archdog Von Hungelow on Feb 10, 2012 4:15 PM EST up reply actions
And so these postings
overwhelmingly consider racism in the south above the schools’ rivalry. That’s what this video represents.
Refering to “pony gate” and someone calling a coach an atheist is one thing, and in fairness those things are petty and deserve petty responses. But to respond that ole miss is institutionally racist takes things to a different level. Sure, it’s just as incorrect as labelling Mullen an atheist, but the issue of not one of simple inaccuracy, its degree. That’s the distinction: making fun of a coach versus labelling an entire university with the incorrect moral decisions of a dead culture.
I fully agree with your recent post, Archdog, that public shame would cease any escalation here. However, I don’t know, in truth, how anyone could escalate this video “dialogue” beyond the Racist video.
The spectator is compelled to look directly down the road and into the middle of the picture. -Baldessari
Oh yeah it's totally ratcheted up, unfortunately.
I hope it doesn’t get into the Auburn/Bama territory of hatred.
by Archdog Von Hungelow on Feb 10, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
Funny how a radio show can do that to a rivalry
Head to head says atheist and here we are. The voice is truly rumor’s medium.
The spectator is compelled to look directly down the road and into the middle of the picture. -Baldessari
EXCELLENT POINT
Yes, I had to type that in all caps.
And so these postings overwhelmingly consider racism in the south above the schools’ rivalry. That’s what this video represents.
That video does nothing but trivialize a very crucial moment in a major era of the 20th Century and of American History in general. By using James Meredith’s integration as “smack talk” and negative recruiting fodder, you significantly drain the significance out of Meredith’s actions.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Sports are chaotic and stupid; and we're bad at them.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Feb 10, 2012 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
Grammar fails everywhere. My apologies.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Sports are chaotic and stupid; and we're bad at them.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Feb 10, 2012 4:58 PM EST up reply actions
Eh, those videos didn't strike me as such.
They weren’t necessarily trying to show that “Dan isn’t Christian,” but rather that “Dan doesn’t run the principled program he says he does.”
Personally, I don’t find it all shocking or horrifying that football players listen to rap music and go to strip clubs. I think people who do find such disturbing are geezers who need to lighten up.
But attempting to mock State for its players going to strip joints and whatever else that YouTuber was doing isn’t nearly as damaging as this State video. It’s debatable as to whether or not listening to vulgar music and paying to see naked women is morally reprehensible; it’s not debatable as to whether or not supporting Jim Crow is morally reprehensible, especially in today’s society.
I see one video as harmless fun. I see another one as disgusting and malicious. Yes. I’m biased.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Sports are chaotic and stupid; and we're bad at them.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Feb 10, 2012 4:54 PM EST up reply actions
I can see why people are really pissed about the atheist rumor
But I think you nailed it earlier when you responded to this guy in twitter that being labled a racist is worse than being called athiest. It’s logic.
Some consider being called an atheist to be bad (though some of those may think this label to be the worst slander possible). Yet everyone considers that being called a racist is bad, regardles of whether they believe in God or not. The subjective derogatory weight some attribute to atheism is not “worse” than the objective moral wrong of racism.
The spectator is compelled to look directly down the road and into the middle of the picture. -Baldessari
Out of curiousity
How often do 40 year old men you know linger on the Facebook pages of 17-18 year old boys?
by Archdog Von Hungelow on Feb 10, 2012 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
Curious minds
It’s stupid, but that’s what happens during recruiting season – old and young men, and women no doubt, try to influence the decisions of young men as to which college or university they will attend to play sports, often football, basketball, and baseball.
The spectator is compelled to look directly down the road and into the middle of the picture. -Baldessari
Come on.
The “our STATE” campaign, just like the “People’s University” campaign, exploits the feelings held by Mississippi State fans with regards to Ole Miss, notably that Ole Miss thinks itself superior to other Mississippi schools and is a school for the haughty and privileged.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Sports are chaotic and stupid; and we're bad at them.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Feb 10, 2012 4:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
"Our STATE" is a holisitc campaign meant to showcase achievements of MSU
Namely the perception that MSU has dominated TSUN in in-state football recruiting since Mullen declared it his personal mission
Your Ad Here - only $29.99
Also
it’s because they use the full name of the state, Mississippi State Univeristy, as opposed to an abbreviation like Ole Miss. So it’s their State, get it?
The spectator is compelled to look directly down the road and into the middle of the picture. -Baldessari
Wait a sec...
You REALLY think MSU didn’t mean that they own the State of Mississippi particularly Ole Miss in all sports and academics and as a slight to Ole Miss and it’s fans when they used the campaign slogan “This is our STATE”?
Unless you can prove (and by prove I mean that you are on the marketing team for MSU or that you were in the brainstorming meeting that came up with the slogan or that you actually came up with the slogan yourself) that those were NOT the intentions of MSU when putting up those billboards and making those commercials, there is no way I will believe otherwise.
So many things to respond to
I’m going to make bullet points for this, mostly to keep my ADD on traOH LOOK A SQUIRREL!
A) This is the SEC. Your rivals are looking to get you in trouble, or in Arkansas’ case, get your own coach in trouble. It’s a cost of doing business in this climate. UT turned Bama in about 15ish years ago, Bama poised Auburn’s trees, Arkansas dug up cell phone records on their own coach, and spare me any argument that State would NEVER turn Ole Miss in to the NCAA for any violation. I’ve seen enough youtube videos from State Fan claiming Ole Miss is paying players. I think grown men visit 17 year olds’ Facebook pages is troublesome at best, but it is what it is, and it happens. It’s what makes the SEC the SEC, for better or for worse. The video showed that State Fan is not afraid to do the same before you get all high and mighty with it.
B) Since you brought up Ole Miss fans trolling Facebook, what exactly are you doing here? Might hysterical of you to throw stones from your glass house. I’m SURE you were not looking to hook some Ole Miss fans, and you’ve succeeded. I hope you sleep well tonight knowing that.
C) If you REALLY want to point fingers at who flung what mud first, this WHOLE vitriolic thing between out fan bases started with referring to Ole Miss as the TSUN. Who started that? If he doesn’t start clowning (then, to his credit, beating) Ole Miss, we’re probably not here right now. But, flash forward a couple of years, and now we’re posting videos on youtube making the state I grew up look like one huge klan rally. Thank God no one other than us cares about this rivalry.
D) As far as everything coming out of Mullen’s mouth being about Ole Miss, we know 100% of it isn’t, but a large majority of it is. He’s a brilliant marketer who has figured out how to mobilize a fan base by catering to the lowest common denominator , and the Capt Insane-os have fallen for it hook, line, and sinker. He won’t even SAY Ole Miss, for God’s sake.
E) As far as I know or can tell, the “Freeze called Mullen an Atheist” affair is all based on what some recruit(s) said to Matt Wyatt. That sounds like speculation to me. Who knows what, if any, ax said recruit(s) may have to grind with Coach Freeze? What have we learned about assuming things to be true? I will say this though: if it IS true, there needs to be a very public apology and explanation. Another coach’s religious beliefs have no place in recruiting warfare.
by Sherlock_Spurlock on Feb 10, 2012 6:51 PM EST up reply actions
Up until recently...
The Official Slogan for Ole Miss was ’Mississippi’s Flagship University’. You do realize that is essentially Ole Miss saying that “This is OUR University System”. It’s erroneous but was used for over a decade. In response MSU was “The People’s University”.
This is the video to go along with the campaign, please try to find something derogatory toward Ole Miss.
by Archdog Von Hungelow on Feb 10, 2012 6:15 PM EST reply actions
Yeah but but
We ARE the flagship, you guys are only pretending.
by WrigleyvilleReb on Feb 10, 2012 6:47 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
You're not helping our argument here, bud.
That was a called play, and I called it Brotha!!! HYYAAAAAAAA!!!!!!
by Catfish Powe-boy on Feb 10, 2012 9:58 PM EST up reply actions
I don't care
I’m an Ole Miss grad, a minority and a resident of Oxford. Who cares what others think, I know the truth about the velvet ditch and Ole Miss and I will always love them both. Most folks who have ever spent any time here share my opinion even state fans. So one ass decides to get creative and post a video. Bully for them. Doesn’t change how I feel or change what I love about Ole Miss and Oxford.
by rebelguest on Feb 11, 2012 1:13 AM EST via mobile reply actions
What most Bulldog fans don't understand is..............
that outside the SEC and the south, most people don’t even know the difference between the two universities. They just know it’s a Mississippi school and because the Bulldog fans continue to prove we are a bunch of red necks who do things of poor taste, unfortunately that is what people think of Mississippians that attend any of the schools in Mississippi.
I even had someone ask me,“How do you try to out redneck the other school?”
Which I find very funny, because I have been working in the Mid West the last couple of years, from Western Maryland to St. Louis. I see plenty of folks who act very similar to Mississippi folks. We are all good people, just trying to make a living.
Don’t get me wrong though, I like nothing more than beating the dog mess out of a Bulldog. When all you have is Starkville, Ms to measure your success by, it just seems like starting your adult life there only leads you but one way to go when you leave. UP!
For anyone who still wants to claim Ole Miss is racist...
I would like to speak for the entire Ole Miss fan base, with the typical white guy responses to such a claim.
“We’re NOT racists. We love black people! We have several black friends. Our mascot is black, for Pete’s sake!”
by The Gunfather on Feb 11, 2012 2:48 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
We're at code black people!!
Black!?!? That’s the worst color there is!!!!
"Well, it's 1 a.m. Better go home and spend some quality time with the wife and kids" - Homer J. Simpson
by Gov. William J. Le Petomane on Feb 16, 2012 5:07 PM EST up reply actions
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