Nathan Stanley Leaves the Ole Miss Rebel Football Program, Raises More Questions than he Answers
Nathan Stanley is no longer an Ole Miss quarterback. This was confirmed by Houston Nutt yesterday with a reportedly one-word textmessage (the word? "Blofarkus") to Veazey after the conclusion of Wednesday night's practice. After being the likely successor to Jevan Snead and penciled-in starter of the 2010 season, Nathan Stanley found himself in a position no quarterback would envy - fourth in the depth chart of a middling SEC squad, directly behind a guy who might not even be eligible to play next season.
While part of me feels that Nate got a raw deal, another part of me realizes that he has had some real struggles this offseason. Throughout spring practices, he hasn't displayed the confidence or skill he displayed before the beginning of last season, and seemed to be going through the motions as opposed to actually fighting to earn the starting job.
This does clarify a somewhat-murky quarterback situation, with Randall Mackey and Zack Stoudt emerging as leaders to earn the starting spot over a promising but raw Barry Brunetti, but one can't help but ask a few questions in the wake of Nathan Stanley's decision.
For starters, what does this signify? I think that this primarily shows that the coaches are distancing themselves from a pro-set and moving towards the read-option, dink-and-dunk offense we saw Jeremiah Masoli lead late last season. Considering David Lee's experiences with the Wildcat and Pat White option in Miami, this doesn't come as a surprise. Also, when seeing how the offensive line, receivers, and halfbacks developed into such a system during the second half of 2010 - a system which did see some notable offensive successes, despite the season's overall suck-ass-itude - this is certainly a good coaching decision.
This also shows that Zack Stoudt and Barry Brunetti may actually be that good. That of course, is the optimist in me talking, but I've read nothing but praise, objective and otherwise, for Stoudt's leadership and arm strength as well as Brunetti's athleticism.
Then there's the even tougher question to answer, and that's how he could go from the starter at the beginning of last season to the bottom of the depth chart in a few short months? Remember last spring with Nathan Stanley and Raymond Cotton - I wonder how that guy's doing - were dueling for the starting job and doing a damn fine job at it? Remember then when Ray decided that he preferred wadded women's undergarments and hissied up the coaches for not giving him more time in Spring drills, despite having an injured rotator cuff? Remember then when Raymond Cotton leftOxford for South Alabama, bum shoulder and all, because he was so butthurt over that?
It was Nate Stanley's job to lose... which is exactly what he did when Jeremiah Masoli was brought into Oxford. To be fair, Masoli's a far more potent offensive weapon than Nathan Stanley ever was, but perhaps that was the beginning of the end of Nathan Stanley Ole Miss career.
Juco and I have discussed this at length, and we both feel that his being pulled in the Jacksonville State game, despite throwing three touchdowns, because of his giving up a scoop-and-score and reaction thereafter may have left a permanently sour taste in the guy's mouth. If the coaches are going to pull you for a relatively minor transgression - over the course of an entire season, that play means little - for a guy who they very clearly worked their asses off to bring in and replace you, then they're openly demonstrating that you've got little value in their offense. Why would anyone work hard after coming to such a conclusion, especially someone with the ego of a quarterback?
That provides a fun segue into a question which needs to be asked (if only to rustle the backhair of the Razorback partisans) is whether or not Houston Nutt really is TEH QB KILLAR?!!1 When looking at what we thought of Nathan Stanley a few springs ago, as a freshman with a nice arm and good touch, compared to what we think of him now, an unstable junior who has cearly let his competition overtake him, one can't help but think that maybe this could be the most legitimate cause to question the quarterback coaching of one Houston Dale Nutt we've seen at Ole Miss.
I do think that the "QWARTORBACK KILLUH" meme, as with any heap of idiocy originating in northwest Arkansas, is overplayed, hyperbolized, and spoonfed to the peabrained dolts who comprise much of the SEC's fan bases by everyone's favorite slophouse with little effort. And of course people just gobble that shit up like, pun intended, pigs at a trough, because it's easy to have someone else reach stunningly simple conclusions for you - convincing yourself is too tough, so let somebody else do the work for you, amirite? But I'll be damned if we didn't see Nathan Stanley go from a middling SEC quarterback to a, frankly, bad one seemingly overnight.
In the short run, Stanley's departure doesn't have any real impact on our program, but one can't help but question the long term viability of this coaching staff with regards to quarterback play and general attrition. Of course it's not the end of the world, but it's not something in which we should find much comfort, either.
Twitter was abuzz with this yesterday once this news broke. The gloom-and-doomer's, snarksters, and prepubescent (or totally adult) adulators of Nathan Stanley's mom (we put that photo up two years ago, and we're stillgetting Google search hits on it, you sickos) all had $0.02 worth of opinion to share. My opinions on this are mixed, and I imagine the preceding bits of disconnected thought and information demonstrate that well enough. I'll leave y'all up to the further postulatin' and gesticulation right after I leave Nathan Stanley with my personal wishes that he find a place where he can play and do well. Best of luck to you, Nate. You gave our program three seasons of work, and for that we thank you.
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Yeah.
As I said to Ghost, “I’m not upset to see Stanley go given his production this Spring. I am however worried about what his obvious regression reflects about the coaches.”
Red Cup Rebellion - An Ole Miss Blog
Turns out that we're not very good at football.
by Juco All-American on Apr 14, 2011 10:25 AM EDT reply actions
The coach angle worries me, as well.
I can’t help but wonder if Stanley would still be around had we hired a decent QB coach last year instead of Rader. Obviously, that’s not the sole cause of any of this (his regression, his transfer, etc.), but I would think having three position coaches in three years with three different offensive and leadership styles can’t help.
Feel bad for the guy.
But if we had the chance to do things differently… I don’t think much would change. Someone had to draw the short stick. I feel bad for him, but like you said, he didn’t put up much of a fight this spring. (Saw it with my own eyes)
by Nerd the Rebel on Apr 14, 2011 10:25 AM EDT reply actions
Overall, this seems the best route for both parties
I think it is easy to see why he had little confidence left and decided to leave. I felt bad for him when he was pulled for his one mistake against Jacksonville State (as you mentioned). That is not a fair way to deal with a kid’s playing time, but I think it happened because Nutt was looking for any reason to get Masoli into the game. I actually thought Stanley had played well and outperformed Masoli in that game.
However, our season would have been an even bigger failure if he had played QB for us all year. He would have gotten murdered behind our OL last year. I don’t think he was lied to either- I honestly think Nutt had every intention of trying to run a pro-style set when they recruited him. Eventually, it didn’t work out, and our personnel currently fits better with the read option we are trying to run. I agree- the “QB Killa Houston Nutt” meme is overdone and stupid.
The worrisome part overall is the high attrition rate in our football and basketball programs recently. Losing 10-15 kids in football and 3-4 in basketball per offseason is just too much. Either something is wrong with the coaching staff and their ability to evaluate talent or something is wrong with the mindset of the players and they just want to quit when things get tough. Either one is concerning. There are certainly good reasons for a player to transfer from time-to-time (and I think it was in Stanley’s best interest here), but I don’t know that I have ever seen as much attrition in an athletic program as we have seen in ours lately.
by bball1984 on Apr 14, 2011 10:40 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
"Losing 10-15 kids in football and 3-4 in basketball per offseason is just too much."
Agreed. And that’s going to come back to bite us at APR time, right?
Well, to be honest, I don't know
how the APR actually works. I know we have had multiple kids transfer from our bball team each offseason under AK, and our APR has remained (surprisingly) good. So, perhaps transfers don’t hurt that much? Maybe someone on this board can enlighten us.
Yeah, I don't know either.
I just remember the APR being low post-Orgeron (supposedly) because of the attrition issues. Maybe it works different in basketball because of the ability to go pro earlier?
I think that
whether the transfers graduate at their subsequent schools is what factors into the APR. As long as Stanley graduates from Wherever State, we won’t take an APR hit. Something like that.
I believe you are still penalized for the transfers....
but as long as they leave in good academic standing and maintain good academic standing or graduate at the next school, you aren’t hit nearly as bad. The APR is less about limiting transfers and more about limiting flunk-outs.
That said, if a guy/gal leaves a program in good standing, but then subsequently fucks up in school at the next stop, it shouldn’t come back on the original school. It makes no sense to me to penalize a program once they have nothing to do with the oversight of the student-athlete.
Just another "good for nothing law school grad".
by RebelBarrister on Apr 14, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed that attrition is a concern, but...
… in regards to basketball transfers this year, I believe that both Bogan and Gaskins have already graduated, so those transfers shouldn’t affect our APR.
This is getting a little ridiculous
I am starting to buy into Nutt being the quarterback killer, but what I’m more concerned about is the attrition. Seems like 7-10 people are leaving out program each year. I have never heard of anything like this. I guess transferring is the popular thing to do right now, across college football, not just here, but this is just alarming.
by somewhere_over_dwaynebowe on Apr 14, 2011 11:07 AM EDT reply actions
Exactly how I feel
I’m having a hard time to finding a reason why our QB’s are regressing each year that doesn’t involve coaching. The attrition is killing us, especially because we are losing our most talented players/recruits. It is robbing us of starters, depleting our backups and screwing up our team chemistry.
The Rebels need a messiah....
and Stephen Garcia has the hair cut.
by rickmuscles on Apr 14, 2011 11:07 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Sorry Stanley
He’ll find a place to play.
But if he had been our full-season starter last year we might not have won a single game. If it’s possible to “save” a 4-win season, Masoli did it.
Carl Lipbaum died last week in summer school from a severe anxiety attack.
It is for the best
I never had anything against him but he was never going to work out. If this was ‘08 and we had Oher et al on the line and Wallace at WR he’d be great. Hell, those guys made Snead look like John Fucking Elway. Who the hell knows what our line is going to be like this fall. That said I’m more comfortable with a scrambler. Sucks that he had to wait three years to figure out that he isn’t the man. Good luck to the poor bastard.
"If someone said I ever gave a damn, they damn sure told you wrong"...Merle Haggard
by warrior possum on Apr 14, 2011 11:15 AM EDT reply actions
Nathan Stanley is upset...
Nathan Stanley hasn’t been this upset since his free trial of proactive ran out.
by Kennedy's_Fist on Apr 14, 2011 12:11 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
LOL, I just noticed your post basically said the same thing
Damn that was a creature looking ass boi!!
I'm simply legendary......
"THE QB KILLER" (HDN) STRIKES AGAIN!
Stanley is just another name in the long list of quarterbacks HDN has failed to help develop. Jevan Snead (who also showed no improvement and actual regression under Nutt), Tavaris Jackson (not good enough to play at UA but good enough to start for the Vikings), Matt Jones (with such freakish athletic ability he was drafted in the first round as a receiver), Mitch Mustain (who hasn’t been the same since Nutt benched him after starting 8-0 in his freshman season), Casey Dick (who granted wasn’t very talented but showed no progression through his 3 years starting (under Nutt) until his 4th year when he was under Bobby Petrino), the list goes on and on. Next up, Zack Stoudt
by Kennedy's_Fist on Apr 14, 2011 12:30 PM EDT reply actions
Most of those examples are pretty bad.
The only real case out of those is Tavaris Jackson, butI really don’t know the details there.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Sports are chaotic and stupid; and we're bad at them.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Apr 14, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with Ghost and will take it a step further...
by saying that the whole “QB KILLLLAAAA!!!” argument is rigged in general. Houston Nutt is a running game coach. Always has been, always will be. To say he doesn’t develop “throwing” QB’s is correct, but doesn’t take into account the rest of what he does. It is no different than saying Mike Bianco doesn’t develop home run hitters. That may technically be true, but he doesn’t recruit a whole lot of power hitters to begin with.
If you want to argue over whether HDN is the right man for the job, or a good program builder, or a good strategist in general- those are arguments I will listen to.
HDN as a strategist?
Sorry, I guess you haven’t been watching his play-calling long enough. If you look at the formation you can call exactly where the ball is going on nearly every play. There is no imagination in what HDN is doing on offense. He didn’t “invent” or add the Wildcat offense, that was when Gus came to Fayetteville and was about to lose his job. He HAD to add something. Hell he had McFadden, Felix Jones, and Peyton Hillis in the same backfield (with a few other NFL’ers on the O-Line) and they STILL couldn’t win the SEC West.
I am so happy for the change from HDN to Petrino. It is nice to have a real head coach again.
WPS!!!
"I solemnly swear to tell the truth as I know it, the whole truth as I believe it to be, and nothing but what I think you need to know."
When did anyone in this thread say he invented the wildcat?
When did anyone in this thread say shit about Gus Malzhan? When did anyone in this thread say anything about Darren McFadden, Felix Jones, or Peyton Hillis? When did anyone in this thread say anything about Bobby Petrino?
Do you just Google “Houston Nutt Ole Miss” to find sites on which to leave this stale bullshit, as if we weren’t tired of reading it three years ago? Shit, I expected a Hog fan or two in the comments thread, but I at least expected them to stay the fuck on topic.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Sports are chaotic and stupid; and we're bad at them.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Apr 14, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Come on Ghost...
Be nice. He is from “TX” and a “Hogs” fan. You can’t really expect “intelligence” can you? ;-)
by astaylo1 on Apr 14, 2011 3:27 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
someone mentioned HDN as a strategist
and I had to laugh and answer. Please look at BBall1984’s post as the one that I was replying to. So, I was “on topic”
"I solemnly swear to tell the truth as I know it, the whole truth as I believe it to be, and nothing but what I think you need to know."
I got this

Considering changing my name to RebelBlackBearsConception
by ColRebsLastBreath on Apr 14, 2011 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
You, sir, are an idiot
I never once said that HDN was a " good strategist." My exact quote was, “f you want to argue over whether HDN is the right man for the job, or a good program builder, or a good strategist in general- those are arguments I will listen to.”
I never once even implied the guy was a good strategist. I just said if you wanted to argue whether he was or not, that is an argument I would listen to. The whole “QB Killa” thing is way overblown. Look, I am honestly not a big HDN fan. I think he is what he is- an average coach. Not great, but not bad either. I don’t understand all of the anger Hog fans direct at this guy. He took you to an SEC Title game for crying out loud. Maybe you can argue he should have done more, but he was also dealing with rumors and angry mobs filled with people like you that foam at the mouth with hatred for the guy. Get outta here with all this ridiculous crap man.
No, I'm sure
someone posted a “Houston kills another QB” thread over at Hogville, it’s the off-season, the piggies are bored and are ready to rub it in again.
Dude, I like Katy Perry and watch "Glee." I’m pretty much a lost fucking cause.
by Queen Hoka-Hotty-Toddy on Apr 14, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
They could be curb-stomping Florida on their way to an SEC title,
and the loons over at Hogville would still find the time to hate on Houston Nutt.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Sports are chaotic and stupid; and we're bad at them.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Apr 14, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Meth is a helluva drug
http://www.mappsd.org/Signs%20&%20Symptoms.htm
by Mexter Dccluster on Apr 14, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess
Sorry, I guess you haven’t been watching his play-calling long enough. If you look at the formation you can call exactly where the ball is going on nearly every play. There is no imagination in what HDN is doing on offense.
you were the only one who predicted McCluster’s pass to Shay Hodge in the LSU game. You should get your ass of the computer and into Oxford. We’re always looking for a good defensive coordinator.
But even Tavaris Jackson
is not that talented. In his best NFL season, he had around 1900 yards and 12 picks to 9 touchdowns. He was drafted by the Vikings because he ran a good 40 and had a strong arm. Moreover, they have made it clear since he’s been there that he is not their franchise QB.
Jevan Snead’s problems were his own. If one follows the cup-in regards to a post from a couple of years ago-, they would realize that about 50% of Jevan’s 2008 prominence was directly attributable to Mike and Mike (wallace/oher).
Mitch Mustain is known as an arrogant headcase and he lost the starting job at USC to some catholic-school boy bitch (De La Salle y’all).
Matt Jones has a bit of a problem with, ya know, kuhkaine.
And Casey Dick is a fuckawful example. I watched him play numerous times and the kid just wasn’t very good. Plus, his last name is Dick. Not to be juvenile, but I wouldn’t trust him for a second.
by Mexter Dccluster on Apr 14, 2011 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I probably shouldn't weigh in here...
But 12 picks – 9 TDs in the NFL >>>> than about 90% of SEC QBs in the last 10-20 years not named Manning. I really don’t think that saying “yeah, but Tarvaris Jackson was only a so-so NFL QB” is a very good argument for the point you’re trying to make.
My point
is that he’s never been that impressive at any point in his career. So maybe he wasn’t that good. Besides a couple of good seasons at 1-AA, the Vikings picked him in the 2nd round out of nowhere because he had a strong arm and could run. If having a strong arm and being fast automatically made you some sick quarterback that only a bad coach could make transfer or regress, then the QB Killuh argument would work. Unfortunately about 4 outta 10 quaterbacks at public high schools in the south can run and have strong arms. The kid is a certainly good, he’s in the NFL, but Matt Cassell is a starter and the dude never played college ball. My point is that coaches don’t matter as much as is being purported here.
My previous post was in response to kennedy’s fist arguing that Nutt didn’t recognize Tavaris’ potential. My point was that even at the peak of his career so far, he had a negative td-int ratio. I don’t know how I could further prove my point.
by Mexter Dccluster on Apr 15, 2011 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
If you don't no details don't say examples are bad... ghost
Tavaris spent his first couple years at Arkansas and was very sparingly seen at the end of games when the final result was decided. Tavaris showed an arm equally as strong as Brett Favre’s (not an overstatement), only Arkansas didn’t have the talent at receiver to catch the bullet. For Mitch Mustain, how many freshman QB’s go 8-0 their freshman year, in the SEC, none. Mustain’s freshman year many thought he was and would be better than Stafford and Tebow, both are starting in the NFL, so you can’t say he didn’t have potential. If you saw Matt Jones play it’s obvious that he was one of the best athletes to come out of the SEC in the last decade. However, he never developed patience and proper mechanics in his years at Arkansas and maintained his backyard gunslinger type of play that doesn’t encourage consistency or translate to the NFL. As for Dick, he first played in the last few games of his freshman season and played pretty well, however he showed no improvement in any of his years with HDN. Point proven. Think before you post.
by Kennedy's_Fist on Apr 14, 2011 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe the word is "know"
rather than “no”
haha nice dude
why don’t you make an educated statement yourself rather than riding ghost’s balls?
by Kennedy's_Fist on Apr 14, 2011 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Because pointing out grammatical errors is the best.
"There's no better way to say 'I'm a badass' than the thumbs up. It's so hot right now."
Why not reply to my post?
“Tavaris showed an arm equally as strong as Brett Favre’s”
- So did Ryan Leaf.
“For Mitch Mustain, how many freshman QB’s go 8-0 their freshman year, in the SEC, none. Mustain’s freshman year many thought he was and would be better than Stafford and Tebow, both are starting in the NFL, so you can’t say he didn’t have potential.”
Mitch Mustain had Darren McFadden and Felix Jones. In his 8 wins, he threw for 894 yards , completing 69 out of 132 passes (right around 50%) with 10 touchdowns and nine interceptions. So yeah, that’s potential, but potential doesn’t mean shit in the SEC.
If you saw Matt Jones play it’s obvious that he was one of the best athletes to come out of the SEC in the last decade. However, he never developed patience and proper mechanics in his years at Arkansas and maintained his backyard gunslinger type of play that doesn’t encourage consistency or translate to the NFL
Again, he was also doing cocaine, so we’ll call this a push (and I’m being generous on that).
As for Casey Dick, I think we all know that he reached his potential on Prom night of his senior year.
by Mexter Dccluster on Apr 14, 2011 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Ugh... I've done this so many times before.
Tavaris Jackson’s been explained on here. Broseph’s not that good, and just because he can throw hard doesn’t mean anything. A lot of shitty quarterbacks can throw hard, just as a lot of great quarterbacks can’t (Drew Brees for example).
Regarding Mitch Mustain’s 8-0 performance, look at the stats from those games and name ONE that Arkansas would have lost had Mitch Mustain not been in the game. The only real argument one can make is the Vandy game, but other than that, he was a non-factor in the Razorback victories. Also, three years removed from Houston Nutt, the guy still sucked. Houston Nutt didn’t have anything to do with it; Mustain’s shitty attitude did.
Matt Jones didn’t translate to the NFL =/= Houston Nutt killed him. He’s a college coach who is paid to win college games. A lot of excellent college quarterbacks sucked once they went pro, that doesn’t mean their coaches didn’t use them properly in college, not does it invalidate games won during college.
Casey Dick sucked from day one. I don’t think that’s a fair example of “killin.” I can concede that Nutt doesn’t develop quarterbacks well, but to say he “kills” them suggests that he takes already good quarterbacks and makes them significantly worse at the sport. So far, nobody has really been able to give a good example of that having taken place.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Sports are chaotic and stupid; and we're bad at them.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Apr 14, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I wouldn't expect a reply to either of our responses
because we invoked those fucking things called facts.
by Mexter Dccluster on Apr 14, 2011 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
My bad it took a little while, I actually have a life...
Tavaris Jackson wouldn’t be on an NFL team if he wasn’t a good QB. His lifetime QB rating is around 76.6, which is very average and definitely not below average. (1 fact) Unlike Ryan Leaf, Jackson wasn’t projected to be a top pick and a great NFL QB. Anyone who can play QB in the NFL can play in the SEC. For Mustain, look at the games he didn’t start and UA’s record without him starting in 2006 (2-4!) (fact #2) For Matt Jones, he didn’t translate because he wasn’t developed into a reliable pocket passer, part of any head coach’s job who wants to win. HDN’s doin a great job winning games by the way (1-7 in SEC last year) (Fact #3, he sucks). As far as making a QB worse – Jevan Snead – year 1 with Nutt (26 TD, 13 INT), year 2 with Nutt (20-20). (Facts are fun).
by Kennedy's_Fist on Apr 14, 2011 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Dude. Give the Mustain shit a rest.
The games Mustain “won” – Utah St, SEMO St, Vanderbilt, Old Piss, ULM, South Carolina, Auburn, and Alabama.
The Auburn game was won by McFadden and the Arky defense. The South Carolina game saw Mustain throw ONE PASS but since he got the start that counts as a “win” for him I guess. The Alabama game, sure, maybe you can give that to him becuase he threw the winning pass…
Arkansas’ four losses (which didn’t have Mustain as a starter) were to #3 ranked USC Trojans, #8 ranked LSU, #4 ranked Florida, and #5 ranked Wisconsin. They literally lost four games – three of which were close – to top ten teams… but you’re right, they should have won those on the back of a fresh out of high school quarterback. Give me a break. Arkansas literally won the ten easiest games on their schedule that season and lost the four most difficult, and yet that’s somehow proof of QB killin?
And the Jevan Snead bullshit’s been debunked-ish. We’ve got a whole article on it. Check the right-hand sidebar.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Sports are chaotic and stupid; and we're bad at them.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Apr 14, 2011 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
"For Matt Jones, he didn’t translate because he wasn’t developed into a reliable pocket passer, part of any head coach’s job who wants to win."
Like Urban Meyer and Tim Tebow/Alex Smith? Or Rich Rod and Pat White/Denard Robinson?
by Mexter Dccluster on Apr 14, 2011 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
wow nice argument... not
bringing up both Tebow/Smith only proves that Urban Meyer has a system that works. He won at Utah because he played in a weak conference, and he won at Florida because HE WAS AT FLORIDA! He had access to the best recruits in the nation and was signing most of them every year! As far as Rich Rod goes? How the fuck were his last few years at Michigan (15-22)? Tard. Pat White and Denard Robinson are track stars in football pads. His good years at WV were carried by Steve Slaton and Pat White.
by Kennedy's_Fist on Apr 14, 2011 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Re-read this thread.
Just look at your arguments-especially to what it devolved into you arguing (that Urban Meyer isn’t a good coach) and you will realize one thing, and one thing only:

by Mexter Dccluster on Apr 14, 2011 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions
That's just a ludicrous argument.
First, if all it took to be a good spread-option QB was to be a track star in football pads, then damn near every team in the nation would be suiting up track stars. Robinson and White succeeded because of the system they were put in and because they’re talented FOOTBALL PLAYERS. Track skills do not automatically translate to football success. Just ask Trindon Holliday. And to argue that Meyer was only successful at Florida because it’s Florida is just idiotic. If anyone could succeed at Florida, then Zook would still be there. Meyer succeeded because he was a good coach who knew how to utilize the talent on his team. Look at how he used the Leak/Tebow tandem. Look at how he and Mullen switched offensive gears when Tebow was behind center full time. They only started trying to groom Tebow into “a reliable pocket passer” his senior year, when they were trying to get him ready for the NFL. They were their most successful when they utilized an offensive philosophy that relied on his natural talent
Once you start arguing
“Urban meyer isn’t a very good coach”, you know your argument has gone to shit.
by Mexter Dccluster on Apr 15, 2011 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Paul Johnson,
Ken Niumatalolo, Urban Meyer, Tom Osborne, Dan Mullen, Chop Kelly, et al woul like a word with you
For Matt Jones, he didn’t translate because he wasn’t developed into a reliable pocket passer, part of any head coach’s job who wants to win.
"Be polite to everyone you meet, but be prepared to kill anyone"-tc16cav
by otisnixon'sparty on Apr 14, 2011 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions
So...
What you’re saying is… Houston Nutt’s never had a good QB to work with? Is that the only thing holding him back?
I’m not trolling, I’m just messing around ya. Because, from what you just said, it looks like you think every vaguely high profile QB Nutt has ever laid his hands on has “sucked”, even at the collegiate level. I don’t think that’s true; none of them were Heisman quality, but there are shades of grey inbetween.
“QB Killah” is just a meme, one that apparently still gets you guys riled up when one poor soul decides to play internet sniper. It’s just that Nutt has had very, very bad “luck” with developing QBs… especially for a guy who was a passing QB himself.
Which good quarterbacks has he had?
His players were either beneficiaries of a system or over-hyped. Do you really think Mitch Mustain and Jevan Snead were that good?
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Sports are chaotic and stupid; and we're bad at them.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Apr 14, 2011 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
It's easy to say
that Mitch Mustain was over-hyped in hindsight. You could say that Mitch Mustain was over-hyped by not putting up god-like stats in his freshman year, but stats don’t mean shit, he was 8-0 and it doesn’t get better than that, period. Who knows what he could have done if he and his high school coach Gus stayed at Arkansas for four years. Auburn probably wouldn’t have won the championship this year.
by Kennedy's_Fist on Apr 14, 2011 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course it's easy to say something was overhyped in hindsight.
In fact, the ONLY time one can conclude that somebody is overhyped IS IN HINDSIGHT! There is literally NO other way to reach such a conclusion.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Sports are chaotic and stupid; and we're bad at them.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Apr 15, 2011 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, you really are saying that...
Wow. I’m just going to move along now. After this.
Name a single QB who was so freaking awesome coming out of high school to the point that he didn’t need any development to adapt to the college game. I can’t think of any… not Scam, not even the Mannings. No freshman comes in polished and skilled at an SEC level.
So, this begs the question… Have all of Nutt’s QBs over the past 10+ years “sucked” from the outset, or have they “sucked” because of his (apparent) inability to do anything constructive with them? I’ll go ahead and mention that Casey Dick nabbed a handful of Arkansas QB records during his single year under Petrino. You can claim that that’s due to Petrino’s system, but only if you want to classify a “pro-style offense” as a system. So, how much of his “suckitude” was due to his innate ability, as opposed to the ability of his coach to, you know, develop him?
I don’t like anyone throwing the “QB Killah” meme in your collective faces, and you get caught up in semantics re: “that implies they were awesome to begin with”, but if Nutt can’t develop a QB, maybe there’s some truth to it. After all, if you kill a child before they become an adult, aren’t you still a murderer?
This will never end..
because you Arky fans see it one way and most Ole Miss fans see it another. The bottom line is, I don’t think QB’s magically start sucking under Houston Nutt because he “kills” them. The guy is a running coach- period. He has never shown himself to be someone totally vested in the passing game. So, to look at his past QB’s stats and then say he kills QB’s because they don’t put up good stats is kind of stupid. QB’s are ALWAYS going to put up lesser stats under HDN because he runs the ball a lot, and when he does use the QB, he has him running the ball half of the time. There aren’t many opportunities for a QB to put up big stats under Nutt, and because his QB’s don’t put up big stats, everyone labels him a “killer.” It is stupid.
Look, I am not defending him as a great coach. I am not a big HDN fan. But, this argument is just dumb. His system doesn’t value or utilize QB’s all that much (especially in the passing game- which I personally think is very dumb). But, just because he doesn’t run a system that allows a QB to put up crazy stats doesn’t make him a QB killer. As much as his offensive systems can be maddeningly inconsistent, one thing cannot be argued: the guy does do a decent job of utilizing his personnel and putting together an offense that can score some points. Our talent level was pretty low on the offensive side of the ball this past season, and our O-line was young and inexperienced. Yet, he found a way to put together an offense that produced a lot of points and kept us relatively competitive with some teams we had no business being competitive with (your Arkansas Razorbacks for one).
by bball1984 on Apr 14, 2011 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It is stupid.
Some of my more-tactless brethren throwing out the “QB Killah” at every turn is stupid. Just as stupid as the “OMG he’s not a killer; all the QBs he’s had have sucked and he prefers a one-dimensional offense anyways” argument. It ends up being an argument over nothing more than semantics, or a chicken-and-the-egg motif.
I did enjoy the “relatively competitive” line, though.
The 2009 13-point victory by OM was a “blowout” (and I’ve seen it described that way many times on this site), yet the 2010 14-point victory by Arkansas was “relatively competitive.” Yeah, yeah, you got “more yards” in 2009. We’ve all had this discussion before.
Well, I don't disagree...
It is a matter of semantics. I think both ways are just arguing their own perspective.
I have never described any of Ole Miss’ recent wins over Arkansas as blowouts. They have been pretty competitive games over the past three seasons both ways.
I already conceded that Nutt doesn't recruit or develop quarterbacks well.
But people are revising history to fit the “QB KILLUR” meme. If Mustain were that good, then why did he suck dick at USC. If Snead were that good, then why did a smaller, slower, weaker armed Colt McCoy beat him out at Texas?
Face it: there is not an example of Houston Nutt taking a quarterback which had demonstrated and proven skill and made said quarterback visibly worse at quarterbacking. That is the argument Hogvillians make; they don’t say “he doesn’t recruit great quarterbacks” or “quarterbacks don’t reach their full potential on Nutt teams,” they say he “kills” quarterbacks. They say things like “Nutt caused Ray Cotton’s rotator cuff injury” and “Nathan Stanley was a good quarterback” and other silly bullshit just to fit their argument.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Sports are chaotic and stupid; and we're bad at them.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Apr 15, 2011 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, HDN did kill Nate.
You said it yourself that Nate hasn’t displayed confidence this offseason and I’ll take it a step further, he hasn’t shown confidence since Jacksonville State! HDN stabbed Nate in the back when he had put in the time and earned the starting job by benching him for Masoli in the the JSU nightmare. Nate showed great confidence last offseason and great confidence in the first half of the JSU when he’d thrown THREE touchdown passes of 41, 31 and 18 yards! In comes Masoli and HDN couldn’t be happier with his prized reject P.O.S. criminal QB. The rest of the game is history. When HDN showed his lack of confidence, Nate lost all confidence in himself. QB KILLED!
by Kennedy's_Fist on Apr 14, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
"In comes Masoli and HDN couldn’t be happier with his prized reject P.O.S. criminal QB"
If a kid smokin a little weed and being in the wrong place at the wrong time constitutes a criminal, then Colorado is a fucking sanctuary.
When HDN showed his lack of confidence, Nate lost all confidence in himself. QB KILLED!
If your head coach appears not to be confident in your ability as an SEC quarterback, then its up to you to step your game up. Stanley didn’t, I don’t know what more their is to say. If you ask anybody on this blog (ya know, smart people who watch football and do math n’shit), 9 out of 10 would say that we would not have done any better, and likely would have done worse with Stanley as a starter.
I’m trying extremely hard to counter your points without giving you a verbal middle finger to incite your trolling to continue, but if you’re going to keep being an antagonistic asshole arguing points that have been debunked, then I suggest you take that nonsense elsewhere.
by Mexter Dccluster on Apr 14, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
hahahahaha
Masoli was a thief! He took something that didn’t belong to him! That’s one of the lowest things you can do as a person! Secondly, Stanley didn’t get a chance to step his game up because he rode the bench the rest of the year! (Watch more football) Starting Masoli this year, even if we did “better” (4-8,1-7 SEC) does nothing for our program and simply provided Nutt another one-year career saver. Starting Stanley this season would have allowed him to learn the offense for a year and come back the next year as a returning starter, and we’d be in much better shape this season. However, last year can be considered a void (if not a step backward, which it was) in the advancement of Ole Miss football. Smart guy.
by Kennedy's_Fist on Apr 14, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
What
did Masoli steal? Did you know that the comments on ESPN articles aren’t factual all the time?
For chrissakes read any in-depth story investigating what happened with Masoli and you realize he got rail-roaded. He didn’t touch the shit that was stolen and to say so is a fucking lie.
Stanley didn’t get a chance to step his game up because he rode the bench the rest of the year! (Watch more football)
He rode the bench because he had a weak-ass attitude, which is the same reason he was 4th on the depth chart this season. Do you really think we would have done better while Stanley “learned the offense” while having to run the fuck away from defenders all year? No, he’s slow as shit and didn’t demonstrate clarity of mind on a number of throws (watch more football).
Moreover, if Nutt really is a QB killer-as you posit-would stanley have gotten better this season?
However, last year can be considered a void (if not a step backward, which it was) in the advancement of Ole Miss football. Smart guy.
Agreed on that point. But if you were indeed a smart guy, you would look at the statistics of our offense from 2008-2010 only to realize that, golly-fucking-gee, OUR NUMBERS DIDN’T REGRESS. Our defense was far and away the biggest factor in our untimely demise and to say otherwise is ignorant to an extreme. If you can provide me with any sort of statistical analysis demonstrating that A) Offense was our problem last year and B) That was because we had Masoli instead of Stanley, then you have a leg to stand on.
Otherwise you’re being a condescending prick who is getting his getting his arguments demolished, one by one.
by Mexter Dccluster on Apr 14, 2011 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
My point is
that by playing Masoli for a year we didn’t get anywhere! Football programs aren’t judged on one year success (or survival in our case), they’re judged on whether or not they’re moving in the right direction. It’s obvious that we are no better off than we were when Coach O left. We were a middle of the road team before Nutt, and we’re a middle of the road team now, and there is no sign of us getting any better. My prediction is we’ll be worse this season, I hate it but it’s true.
by Kennedy's_Fist on Apr 14, 2011 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I disagree with every statement made.
I think playing Masoli was a good thing, I think football programs are judged on an annual basis as well as general trends, I think we’re much better off than when O left, and I think we are going to be a more competitive team this season.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Sports are chaotic and stupid; and we're bad at them.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Apr 14, 2011 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I think so.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Sports are chaotic and stupid; and we're bad at them.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Apr 14, 2011 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
huh?
that doesn’t really answer the question. I don’t think he did one beneficial thing for our team.
by Kennedy's_Fist on Apr 14, 2011 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, I didn't see the "why"
I think he gave us the best chance we had to win. That’s all I need. You can’t go back with hindsight and say “well those players weren’t worth it because we didn’t win,” because that’s unfair to the decision making done at the time.
Masoli gave us a more competitive edge than Nathan Stanley would have which is why we went with him. Yes, we went 1-7 anyway, but it’s not as if we’re doing any better with Nate.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Sports are chaotic and stupid; and we're bad at them.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Apr 14, 2011 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions
But we wouldn't have done any worse.
and we’d have a returning starter at QB with a year of experience.
by Kennedy's_Fist on Apr 14, 2011 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes we would have.
Masoli kept us in the games against Ark and LSU. Stanley would have been skullfucked. Stanley couldn’t run, Masoli could. Our O-line was actually one of the best in the league at protecting the quarterback according to sacks allowed. That sure as shit wasn’t because our O-line was good.
by Mexter Dccluster on Apr 14, 2011 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
We lost to Ark and LSU
like I said, couldn’t have been any worse, all that matters are wins and losses. DUHHUH
by Kennedy's_Fist on Apr 14, 2011 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Another angle:
Having Masoli allowed us to redshirt Mackey. If Mackey works out, then there’s another positive of Masoli’s transfer.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Sports are chaotic and stupid; and we're bad at them.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Apr 15, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
How in the hell
do you know that Stanley starting all of last year would have led to any other scenario than the present? Even if Stanley starts, I still see Nutt bringing in other guys who better fit his offense.
by WrigleyvilleReb on Apr 14, 2011 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions
If we had had Mustain we might have started 8-0
Now a bloggeur - http://www.msbeernut.com/
by Thile on Apr 14, 2011 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Stanley was yanked for giving up the scoop and score
and then laughing about it on the sidelines. The guy didn’t take his role as starter seriously, which is exactly why Nutt went after Masoli to begin with.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Sports are chaotic and stupid; and we're bad at them.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Apr 14, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
haha yeah right
everyone knew Masoli was gonna be the guy this year regardless of Nate’s performance, the scoop and score was just HDN’s shining opportunity to put in Masoli without it being completely uncalled for
by Kennedy's_Fist on Apr 14, 2011 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
That's more or less what I just said...
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Sports are chaotic and stupid; and we're bad at them.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Apr 14, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions
not exactly
Pulling Nate for a turnover wasn’t the right move, if you pull a QB after one mistake in his otherwise flawless game, you are a fucking idiot.
by Kennedy's_Fist on Apr 14, 2011 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not saying I would have done that, I was just giving the reason.
I don’t think Nate was all that good, but I do think he got a raw deal. The coaches obviously never really wanted him to start.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Sports are chaotic and stupid; and we're bad at them.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Apr 14, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
My point exactly.
Last year was just a wasted year in my mind and it upsets me.
by Kennedy's_Fist on Apr 14, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Considering changing my name to RebelBlackBearsConception
by ColRebsLastBreath on Apr 14, 2011 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Ah...fuck it.
Next.
Don't quote me, boy...'cuz I ain't said $@#%
by ThemRebsIsHellDontThey on Apr 14, 2011 2:07 PM EDT reply actions
I'll go ahead and say it...
I already miss Stanley’s mom. :(
by 7thYearJunior on Apr 14, 2011 2:25 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Stanley's mom
The only reason we envied y’all in Oxford.
Apparently you haven't seen the rest of our "off-the-field talent"
Beauty abounds in Oxford, MS. Everywhere except the athletic fields…
We don’t redshirt All-Americans, but we damned sure redshirt Miss-Americas.
One day, I'll tell my grandkids that the most fun days of my life were the 4 years I spent in Oxford, MS.
I guess I can say it now that he's gone, I always wondered why his skin was so bad looking?
I guess subconsiously it made me not root for the guy as hard, it just fucked with me to look at his pictures, I didn’t really want him on the cover of the media guide or being the face of Ole Miss. I know that’s a shitty and totally douche bag thing to say, but for his mama to be so fine, she had a Ugly ass chap!!
I'm simply legendary......
by IamMSlegend on Apr 14, 2011 2:44 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I'll admit it, I thought
“IF that kid is getting laid it is ONLY because he’s a quarterback. And no girl is desperate enough to lay the 4th string.” He wasn’t getting any play, on OR off the field, I bet.
One good take away from this; the thread over at EDSBS is funny as hell.
Dude, I like Katy Perry and watch "Glee." I’m pretty much a lost fucking cause.
by Queen Hoka-Hotty-Toddy on Apr 14, 2011 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Unfortunately for Nate
all the fine girls go to Ole Miss.
by Mexter Dccluster on Apr 14, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Attrition
In his 13 years as a BCS-level D1 coach Houston Nutt has signed 3 Qb’s that remained Qb’s all through all their years in his program. Matt Jones, Ryan Sorahan and Casey Dick. That’s the list.
Freshman signed by Houston Nutt that transferred before their eligibility was up:
Gary Brashiers (Parade All-American)
Zak Clark
Cole Barthel (opted to go into MLB draft then came back a couple yrs later only to transfer to AR Tech)
Tavaris Jackson (Transferred to AL A&M and is now with the Vikings)
Alex Mortenson
Mitch Mustain (5 star went to USC)
Nathan Dick (left under Petrino)
Joe Chiasson (left under Petrino)
Nathan Stanley
Chris Wilkes
Raymond Cotton (4 star)
QB’s signed by Houston Nutt who subsequently switched positions: (Both 4 stars out of high school)
Cedric Washington
Robert Johnson
JUCO QB’s signed by Houston Nutt
Robby Hampton (played one yr, threw out his shoulder)
Ryan Sorahan (played occasionally, not much impact)
3 out of 15 QB’s signed by Houston Nutt played out their career under him.
He has never developed a QB into a solid pro in his career.
One could argue that he has never had a QB show significant improvement while in his care.
Does that constitute justification for the QB Killa label?
Awww. c'mon girl.
I didn't know Angelina from Jersey Shore...
Had a mug shot?
by Starkey on Apr 17, 2011 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Tavaris Jackson
transfered to Alabama State not Alabama A&M
"Be polite to everyone you meet, but be prepared to kill anyone"-tc16cav
by otisnixon'sparty on Apr 14, 2011 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions
WELL THAT CHANGES EVERYTHING!!!!!
I'm a Rebel, but I bleed the cherry and silver of the Lobos.
by Role Player on Apr 15, 2011 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
The next draft report where
a State player is listed from UofM or vice versa, which is often, I will think of you.
"Be polite to everyone you meet, but be prepared to kill anyone"-tc16cav
by otisnixon'sparty on Apr 15, 2011 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd wager that these numbers are errily similar for guys like
Nick Saban and Les Miles. it’s not as if those guys are pumping out huge passing numbers and NFL ready quarterbacks. And, yes, I’m too lazy to look that up.
Once again, I’m not saying that Nutt IS a good quarterbacks coach, but I’m saying that the notion of his “killin” is absurd and, in the the grand scheme of college football, irrelevant.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Sports are chaotic and stupid; and we're bad at them.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Apr 15, 2011 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
*eerily
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Sports are chaotic and stupid; and we're bad at them.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Apr 15, 2011 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Chances-of-ever-winning-the-SEC-Killin'
At the time it looked like a million dollar buyout of HDN’s contract, a golden parachute. With hindsight it is now obviously a shrewd business move: get rid of a failing coach and at the same time insure that Ole Miss stays in the cellar of the SEC West. Brilliant!
*I think you meant to write "ensure," Arkansawyer.
Unless you’ve taken out a policy that pays you when we’re out of the cellar.
As a side note, I’ll remind you that you’re 1-2 against HDN, himself.
One day, I'll tell my grandkids that the most fun days of my life were the 4 years I spent in Oxford, MS.
This.
Arkansas fans have deluded themsleves into thinking that Bobby P is taking them to new heights. He’s done nothing more than Houston Nutt did for them. They still haven’t won the SEC West (something Nutt did multiple times). They’re still losing bowl games to Big Ten teams. They’re still losing to Alabama. Et cetera.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Sports are chaotic and stupid; and we're bad at them.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Apr 18, 2011 8:16 AM EDT up reply actions
When you're fans look like this

you’ve lost the argument before it began.
by Mexter Dccluster on Apr 16, 2011 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's like looking at a sunset over water.
Where does the hat end and the redneck begin?
by RightRev on Apr 16, 2011 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

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