Would you give Freeze 10 years? Would UM give any coach 10 Years?
by FreezerBurn on Dec 20, 2011 1:49 PM EST
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Let's be honest with each other. "IT" will not happen in Oxford unless we invest time in a coach. The longest coaching stint Iv'e seen in Oxford in my adult life is Cutt. He didn't get us to an SEC title game but he did have success with his six years here. How long do we really expect it to take for us to get to that game? Personally, I think it will take at least 4-5 years just to get a team in place to run Freeze's offense and defense the way it should be run and have the depth in place to make a run at the SEC Title. Judging by the way things have gone in the past, if Coach Freeze doesn't do just that in 3 years or less he may not be able to stay until the end of his contract.
I am in no way comparing our coach to the likes of Spurrier but even the ole ball coach took 6 or 7 years to put USC at the top of their division. I would argue that we are in worse shape than USC in every category which leads me to believe it may take us 8 or 9 years to be a top West team. Which begs the question, How much time would you give our coach to take us to those heights? What do you think it would take for us to be able to allow a coach that much breathing room?
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What would it take?
That’s pretty easy – consistent improvement. I don’t care if he starts at 3-9 and follows with a 5-7, and then a 6-6. So long as our program is consistently improving, taking into account our record, our recruiting, and our attrition rates, Freeze can stay as long as he wants.
Nutt wrote the recipe for a firing: He started with a great season compared to his expectations; he followed it with a bit of a disappointing season; he followed that with a bad season; and he followed that with the worst season anyone could have expected.
We have a long row to hoe. Simply put, we just need to consistently improve.
Agreed
It was so obvious under Nutt’s tenure that the team was sliding downhill in basic fundamentals. The difference between the 2008 and 2009 seasons was amazing, simply in basic technique. I just want to see improvement and competitive teams.
by muttinthehut on Dec 21, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
I think the D in 2009
still had enough of Tracy Rocker’s influence and some phenonemal athletes to make up for the poor coaching. By the time the Egg Bowl had rolled around, we realized “Maybe Nix doesn’t have a fucking clue how to defend the option?”
"A wizard is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to."-Gandalf
by Mexter Dccluster on Dec 21, 2011 12:31 PM EST up reply actions
Me thinks
Nutt checked out the day he signed that fat extension.
Warning: I am a Chinese Spam Robot.
Ten years for what, exactly?
I think Cutcliffe is a good example that all you really have to do at Ole Miss to be successful is win 7 games a year and go to a bowl, any bowl. Freeze won’t get more than 4 years to do that. Billy Brewer had a pretty similar run, though he was more up-and-down than Cutcliffe, being able to follow 9-win seasons with 5-win ones and vice versa like few coaches have ever done. If Freeze goes to the Liberty Bowl or Music City Bowl every year he’ll get 10 years and then some. If he’s at home in December every year…he’ll be gone pretty fast.
Hoping for Freeze Warnings in Oxford.
Give the Busch Stadium squirrel a World Series ring.
by Wild Rebel on Dec 20, 2011 7:54 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
The fact of the matter is we have to realize that if you are 4-4 in the SEC West you are a top 20..
Look I thought firing cut was the right thing to do, but in hindsight, in the 7 years since we fired him we have had 5 losing seasons, a 2-5 record vs. MSU, 2-5 record vs. Vandy, 0-7 vs. Ala, 1-6 vs. Aub, 2-5 vs. Ark, 2-5 vs. LSU. During Cut’s tenure we were 5-1 vs. Vandy, 4-2 vs. MSU, and we beat the other SEC West schools at least twice. We fire him after a 4-7 (3-5 SEC) and the guy we replace him who can only muster 3 SEC wins in 3 seasons. Maybe they would’ve stunk in 2005, I do not know, but the poor handling of his dismissal was the first of 3 poor decisions by our admin. Hopefully, hiring Freeze was not a bad decision, but lets be frank, our fan base will be doing back flips if he can pull off 4 winning seasons in 5 years. Considering our talent and the people we have to face 3 winning seasons in 5 years will be excellent.
Thanks to the SEC’s current bowl structure, you go 5-3/4-4 in the SEC you are in the Gator or Cotton Bowl. Things are a lot different now than were in 1997, when MSU stayed home with a 4-4 record, and in 2001, when Ole Miss did the same.
by RLBruceDickinson on Dec 21, 2011 11:03 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, I thought firing Cut was the right thing to do as well
and the decision was based more around the direction of the program rather than wins.
Honestly, if Cut would have been allowed to come back for 2005, we still had a little bit of talent on that team with the WRs, Willis, and a decent DL. He had kinda figured out a dinky little offense with Robert Lane running the ball, which might have been a pre-cursor of the read option. We might have gone to a bowl that year. After that, the talent really dropped off and Cut wasn’t doing much to improve it, but a bowl might have gotten him another year or two after that.
Boone fired Cut, I think, because he asked Cut to make some changes and Cut refused. I think Cut thought he had enough good will to refuse the request, but I guess he didn’t. The bottom line is that we fired Cut with absolutely no clue who would replace him – and ended up with O.
As for Freeze, I’m willing to give him a lot of time. As long as he shows improvement and eventually builds it to a point where our bad seasons are 6-6, maybe an occasional 5-7 thrown in there, but we normally go 7-5.
We will have to consistently go 7-5 before we can move to the next level. You go 7-5 for 3 years, then everything lines up for you to go 9-3/10-2. You’ll fall back, but hopefully, you can stay at that 7-5 clip, or maybe even change the game to where you’re going 8-4 consistently.
It’s what WVU and Oregon did, and it’s the only way for a mid level program to build. With that said, it’s a lot harder to do in the SEC West.
by Me and Paul on Dec 22, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
agreed....
it takes time, even with the right coach to build consistency in your football program in the SEC. Ole Miss will get lost in a 14 team conference if they do not become the 7th best football school within the conference. That’s hard to do, that’s finishing ahead of TA&M, Missouri, MSU, Vandy, Kentucky, Arkansas and Tennessee over the next 10 years. At that point we will have become a top 20 school in football. The SEC will place 7 in the top 25 on a regular basis.
In the west it will be even harder with LSU, Alabama, Arkansas and Auburn, with A&M and MSU as the weaker sisters. 3-5 and 4-4 for 10 years and 3-1 and 4-0 OOC for 10 years. Somehow we will have to beat one of the top 4 in the west in order to be that 7th best team and finish in the top half of the league.
If Freeze can do that at OM, pay the man he will be worth it.
by ramblinrebel1 on Jan 15, 2012 1:42 AM EST up reply actions
The problem with Cutcliff
Recruiting, offensive stubbornness, making players fit a system that they do not possess the ability to do so.
I would give Freeze 6 years, if he doesn’t pan out, ok, then go hire someone else. But, people need to temper expectations. We are nowhere close to competing for the west. We need to beat the teams we are supposed to and build depth.
We don’t need a Todd Grantham. Leach has been linked to a guy in the porn industry, as well as, could divide our fanbase even further.
Freeze will not do anything off the field to embarrass us. He will have a chip on his shoulder because people are doubting him, so he will give it his all.
Ole Miss will not get Saban, Stoops, or a Meyer. We will not compete for NC, but neither does most of the teams in the Ncaa. Money is finite, even Texas who has everything at its disposal and more money than we will ever had is struggling.
Your alumni, not some trashy alabandwagon fan who only connection to bama is Walmart that sells their caps and t shirts.
While I understand the frustration of the last 2 years, things will get better, for all of our sports.
We all love Ole Miss, we just need to support all our programs by attendance and wallets. I can’t wait for baseball, and looking towards our new facilities and next year with football.
by hotstove97 on Dec 22, 2011 4:16 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I just want the team to appear well coached.
Freeze was offensive coordinator at ASU for a year, and then took over the whole team. The offense was extremely well coached and new exactly what to do 99% of the time. That’s what I am looking for. I don’t think we can have 2-10 years in that case. Maybe we can’t beat Saban, but consistent 6-6 to 8-4’s would be awesome.
I concur
I think putting a team on the field that is competent in their own scheme is something we haven’t done in years and I will not accept anything less than this. It looks like we have a leader in charge now so hopefully this will be the case.
"The Ice Man cometh!"
10 years?
I wouldn’t have given Hugh Freeze one year.
by SouthavenRebel on Dec 23, 2011 12:26 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Compared to other available options?
You pick a first year Sun Belt coach because he coached Michael Oher in High School and worked for Ed Oregeron? (Tip to Ole Miss students on job seeking: Never use the word “Oregeron” on your resume.) That choice reeks of good ole boy network.
by SouthavenRebel on Dec 27, 2011 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
Who should we have gotten?
Better yet, who could we have offered who also would have realistically accepted the job?
Larry Fedora essentially shut us down once UNC came calling, Kirby Smart was never honestly in play, Sumlin and Briles had nothing to do with us.
I know, I know, Rich Rod and Leach. Guess what, they weren’t coming here either.
"A wizard is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to."-Gandalf
by Mexter Dccluster on Dec 27, 2011 3:50 PM EST up reply actions
In the interests of full disclosure, they rank Freeze as a B and
Leach as an A+ and Rich Rod as an A-. Only time will tell if that analysis is correct, because Freeze might very well out pace both of them in the long or short term. However, there is no denying that BOTH of them were at least interested in our job. Some believe they were salivating over it, others believe they were entertaining it as a way to ratchet up publicity surrounding their names to get them better jobs. Either way, we didn’t even speak to either one and we sure as shit didn’t offer them anything.
THAT constitutes a failure of the people in charge to do ANYTHING and EVERYTHING we can to win. Just win. Win. Taking a chance on high profile, high motor, high risk coaches shows the conference, the country and our fans that we will literally do ANYTHING we can to win. Take risks, pay large sums of money, get big name coaches, etc.
I acknowledge the fact that both could have failed spectacularly, embarrassing our school and leaving us worse off than before (although, I think we’re pretty much there). But honestly, because of their past, I believe that both men would have run a VERY tight ship in order to get back in good graces with peers and press. I simply don’t believe that the risk of their failure outweighs the uncertainty of Freezes lack of big time experience. Add on to that the fact that EVERYONE in the conference and country thinks this was the biggest joke of a hire (The Blind Side coach guy!?!?!) and we’re basically at a push between LeachRod and Freeze.
There. I’ve said my piece. For the record, Freeze is my man. I love him. I support him. I’d take him out for a steak dinner. I’d wash his car. I’d shine his shoes. But he has a lot to prove. I just hope he’s as capable as most folks in the know seem to think he is.
Biggest joke of a hire?
I don’t think it’s fair to say that at all. I would say that they Ole Miss community is roughly 80% behind the hire, that link is one example of a national, unbiased guy that doesn’t think it’s a joke of a hire, ESPN ranked it near the middle, no where near the bottom.
In fact, outside of a few folks in our own fanbase (and probably some people in Starkville), I can’t think of anyone calling it a joke hire.
Add on to that the fact that EVERYONE in the conference and country thinks this was the biggest joke of a hire
by Me and Paul on Dec 29, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
Let me rephrase...
Everyone who is not paid to analyze coaches, report on college football or wearing red and blue.
I was not illustrating the validity or grading of Freeze. I was illustrating the fact that when someone asks me who we hired, and I answer with a confident “Hugh Freeze is the guy, great recruiter, has won every where he’s coached and loves Ole Miss” I get a blank stare and a “who the hell is Hugh Freeze?”. Then, after going through his resume, explaining that we wanted a young guy, up and comer, stability etc while the person is googling Freeze on their phone, I get a raucous bout of laughter when the person realizes that “YOU HIRED THE COACH FROM THE BLIND SIDE!!?!?!??!!”
I usually walk away at that point, because there’s nothing I can say to keep the discussion based on merit, talent and upside from that point on.
I’m simply pointing out the fact that for all the heat we might have taken publicly for hiring a “baggage laden” coach like LeachRod, we’re taking similar amounts of bullshit from the public (non sports media mind you) for a “nobody” hire.
Oh, and fuck what people say in Starkville. Their opinions mean shit. I’m talking about the REST of the college football fan world. And before you say it, yeah, yeah, yeah. Who cares what the world thinks, just worry about ourselves, screw them, the world will find out who Freeze is in 2 or 3 years, blah, blah, blah. I’m simply comparing one of the main knocks on LeachRod (bad public image, baggage, etc) to the same type of public reaction we get over our current hire. That’s all.
As I said earlier, Leach was my first choice
Baggage be damned. With that said, I can see the downside of him, and that has nothing to do with said baggage.
The downside, in my opinion, would be getting a coach that is a little older and my not quite have the fire in his belly that he once had, one that has made money on in much easier jobs (radio & books), and one that will further divide the fanbase.
RichRod, I’m on the fence about. He put up video game numbers everywhere he was, but he brings possible NCAA baggage, and that could hurt us. I’m also not 100% convinced of his coaching ability. People talk about the fit at Michigan, but I don’t think that was the problem – his offense put up numbers. He just couldn’t stop anybody and I don’t think that has anything to do with fit.
I will agree that those two might have been better hires on the announcement, but you have to agree that there is also fail potential with them as well. Based on who has taken jobs, I think we did ok.
It’s hard to do, but take the Blind Side out of it, and just look at his resume. It’s good. It’s short, but it’s good. Nationally, that’s the biggest knock on the guy – his lack of experience.
You addressed a lot of my problems with looking to Alabama fan for validation of our hire, but let me add one more. Who do you think they would have said is a good hire for us? That’s what fans do. We did it with Petrino. We did it with Saban. Fans are going to find flaws with whoever we hired.
by Me and Paul on Dec 29, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
If there's one thing I'm sure of about Leach, it's that he still has plenty of fire.
That guy wanted back into coaching more than any human on earth. He wasn’t obvious about it, because that would impact his compensation level to the negative. But reading between the lines of every interview he gave during last season, he was DYING to get back in and prove to all the doubters that he can still whip ass. The “image problem” he would create was what kept he and Rich Rod off our list. And that’s a shame. It proves, beyond a shadow of a doubt that our leadership is more concerned with hiring people who fit in, instead of hiring the best damned coach possible. Sad.
The only problem Rich had was like the article said, getting a great DC. If he came to Ole Miss, he could certainly lure away a really good DC to come coach in the best league in the country. Even if it took a couple years. He could have gotten started with a “placeholder” at DC and once he had our offense clicking, recruit a great DC under the notion of “your defense and my offense can win champs here”.
Basically, both of these guys would have been great at OM for similar reasons. Both were ignored for the WRONG reasons. Freeze was probably hired for the RIGHT reasons (I do believe that he will be good for OM, just HOW good remains to be seen), but that doesn’t negate the fact that we could have had an A hire with very, very strong upside if our decision makers had a big ol set of hairy boys, instead of a big ol hairy vagina.
I don't disagree with most of that, especially the last paragraph
However, why would RichRod be able to recruit a great DC to Ole Miss and the SEC when he couldn’t to Michigan and the Big 10?
I agree with you on Leach wanting to get into coaching, but my fear is that after he got here and had to put up with some of the bullshit that Ole Miss would most certainly put him through – would he still want to stay?
Or would he get fed up with it and want to go home or to another stop?
Like I said, Leach was my first choice, but I do see how it could be an explosion mixing Leach with the boosters that demand to be part of our program.
I just think that good to great DC's who want to be a HC someday, would rather cut their teeth
in the SEC. I could be wrong. As far as stepping stones are concerned, maybe the B10 and SEC are entirely similar. Perhaps that’s an assumption on my part.
As for Leach staying through all the Ole Miss bullshit, I’m simply fed up with the Ole Miss way of doing things. I wanted to get a head strong, assholish guy like Leach in here along with an AD who ONLY cares about winning to try and teach the GOBN a lesson about fucking with the program. I was thinking we LET them blow up. Let them get all pissy over the next two years as Leach and the AD rebuff each and every advance and suggestion they make about how to run the program. Let it finally come to a head with them calling for Leach and the AD’s heads but Leach winning so much, the GOBN would finally be run out of town or at least get their shit gelded. It seems like the only way to get the GOBN to let go of the reigns. Win, and win so much that the rest of us can tell them to fuck off, permanently. Donations might take a light dip, but with winning ways, comes more sidewalk donations as well as bigger checks from piss ant little people like myself. Things would even out in the long run and we’d be free (mostly) of the cancerous, self absorbed, same ol same ol way of doing things.
That's one plan
And I was ready to go down that road initially, but the risk of Leach either getting fed up with the bullshit or not winning enough to give that crowd reason enough to fire him in 3 years was too great for me.
Maybe it’s sour grapes once I realized that we weren’t getting him. I don’t know, but I know see the reasons for not hiring him.
However, if we would have hired him, I would have dressed up as a pirate with a “Leach is my homeboy” chest tat.
I’m just having this discussion to show there were risk with him too. He was probably the best overall candidate, but there were no slam dunks available to us.
Possibly the truest AND sadest thing either one of us has typed in this discussion
but there were no slam dunks available to us.
Mawfuckin sadface.
But not at OM......
cause you are attempting to stop better talent with less talent when you come to Ole Miss. There is a big drop off in talent level from the top schools to the bottom schools. It is much easier to make an impact in lesser conferences. Look at the talent LSU and Chavis have, look what Alabama did to them?
I believe OM went for a long term fix with Freeze. If he is as good as he appears to be, then he will stay around for the duration. Non of the other coaching hires would have stayed more than 4 years before leaving for a bigger paycheck.
by ramblinrebel1 on Jan 15, 2012 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
I think that when you take all things into account
We did pretty well. I wasn’t thrilled with Freeze, but that was because I had to adjust my expectations and accept that it’s just not an attractive job right now.
"A wizard is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to."-Gandalf
by Mexter Dccluster on Dec 28, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
But who would you take that would be better?
All along, my #1 was Leach, followed by Freeze. You could make an argument for RichRod, but I’m really on the fence about that one. Of the people that took jobs, I would say that only Meyer and Leach are vastly better than Freeze.
When you consider that this is Freeze’s home and he won’t be looking for other jobs – that breaks a lot of the other ties for me.
Anybody out there that you think would fit better after seeing Freeze on the job for a few weeks?
He won't be looking for other jobs...
…for two years anyway.
by SouthavenRebel on Dec 28, 2011 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
What gives?
You’ve made that same (or similar) comment in at least 3 threads now.
Look, you may be absolutely right. I am 50/50 on the hire but liking the energy Freeze is bringing right now at least. (I know energy means nothing without on-the-field results – see Orgeron.)
But you are looking pretty Sprivals with your repetition. Say something new or at least provide some insight on why you think Freeze will fail (and again, you may be right).
by 18mph on Dec 29, 2011 9:40 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I just don't think Leach was ever really in play
"A wizard is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to."-Gandalf
by Mexter Dccluster on Dec 29, 2011 12:19 AM EST up reply actions
Everyone keeps saying Freeze isn't going to leave.
But why does everyone think that? Because he’s from Senatobia? He went to Southern Miss. Because he said so? So did Tuberville. Let’s face it, coaches as a group don’t exactly have a good track record of telling the truth. Freeze hasn’t been at any college long enough to even see 2 recruiting classes come in.
Hoping for Freeze Warnings in Oxford.
Give the Busch Stadium squirrel a World Series ring.
When Tub left, we were paying significantly less than Auburn
and were way behind on facilities.
Now, we’re pretty much caught up on facilities – not on par with the Alabamas of the world, but we’re pretty good nationally.
I think Nutt was something like 15-20th highest paid coach in America, and we’re probably pretty close to everyone except the top 5 or so – LSU, Alabama, Texas, OSU, USC come to mind.
My point about Freeze not leaving is that he won’t leave us to go for equal money elsewhere, like say UNC or UCLA or something, whereas a guy from Texas or California might take even money to leave to get closer to home, find a culture that he’s used to, or get in a conference that’s easier to win.
If Freeze leaves for the money of, just for an example Texas – then we’ve had one hell of a ride. Otherwise, I don’t see him going anywhere.
by Me and Paul on Dec 29, 2011 10:06 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Because if he is really that good......
he will get paid well enough not to leave. If he is consistently winning 8-10 games a year he will be worth every bit of what an LSU or Bama would pay him to win a NC. If he is doing well when those programs falter he has a shot to step in and win one SEC title. If he can get that, he won’t have to leave OM to get recruits. So why leave?
by ramblinrebel1 on Jan 15, 2012 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
Also, went back and looked at only BCS hires
because that sight gave an easier grading curve to non-BCS jobs.
The only BCS hires that it ranks as being better than our is:
Meyer – OSU
Leach – WSU
RichRod – AZ
Chryst – Pitt
Worse than us:
Graham – ASU
Beckman – Illinois (which I think is a really good hire)
Fedora – UNC
Sumlin – A&M
Weiss – KU
Mora – UCLA
That puts us close to being upper 1/3 with Penn State left to move. My guess is that they will get a pretty poor ranking based on how long they’ve waited and the number of people that have pulled their name out of consideration.
If Freeze can consistently...
win 3 to 6 games in the SEC and 3 out 4 OOC games and win 5-10 games a year he is being extremely successful at OM.
For a program that has not won 70 games in a decade since the ’60’s we would be doing well if Freeze could win 70 in ten years. All he has to do is go 6-6 and win a bowl for 10 years. Doesn’t sound too difficult, but remember we are Ole Miss now, not the OM of the early sixties. We are a small school competing in the greatest football conference of present times, let’s take what we can get and be happy.
Maybe, just maybe with some consistency we can up our recruiting and grab a QB with pro skills like Eli. It’s obvious a QB that can throw is a must have to compete and beat the likes of Bama, LSU and the rest of the SEC. Having an offense that throws the ball is key to luring such a QB. HDN wasn’t going to get that QB ever. Freeze may be able to bring that kind of talent to Oxford.
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