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Ole Miss = Graveyard Job? Stewart Mandel thinks so.


This excerpt was taken from Mandel's Mailbag column on SI.com.

In terms of available resources vs. job expectations, what is the worst coaching job in college football?
-- Ron, Indianapolis

Two words: Ole Miss. I feel bad saying that because I've made cracks about that fan base's deluded expectations before, but in all seriousness, it's a graveyard job. Despite residing in a small state, despite constant struggles to recruit elite athletes who qualify academically, despite one of the smallest football budgets in the conference (slightly more than Kentucky, Vanderbilt and Mississippi State and about half of Alabama's) and despite playing in a division with three of the past five national champions, two of the Rebels' past three coaches (David Cutcliffe and Houston Nutt) have been fired within two years of Cotton Bowl appearances.

Nutt's program was obviously trending downward, but even in a solid state, the Rebels were never going to keep winning nine games every year. And a couple of 7-6 seasons probably would have scored Nutt maybe one extra year. The next coach will be given a year or two to rebuild, then expected to contend for a New Year's bowl, all while the SEC adds two more schools to recruit against and implements stricter rules about oversigning (which Ole Miss leans on as heavily as anyone) and the NCAA stiffens academic entrance requirements (which means even fewer kids will qualify). Personally, I'd ask for a contract that at least allows me to partake in the Grove before games to help ease the misery.



Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/stewart_mandel/11/30/alabama-oklahoma-state-mailbag/index.html#ixzz1fDDdzDTv

This post is a Red Cup Rebellion FanPost. Please don't sue us.

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I completely disagree with this idiot's conclusion.

He’s right in the first paragraph – all that shit is true.

Cutcliffe was probably let go too soon, Orgeron was an idiot, and Nutt has been a disaster the last two years. It’s our fault for hiring them, but this guy implies that a few 7-6 seasons and they would have still been fired. That’s Nutts. Nutt would be freaking celebrated if his record, considering our youth, had been 7-6 in 2010 and 2011. I don’t think there are very many people at Ole Miss that expect nine wins a year. Shit there probably aren’t 12 teams in the entire country that average 9 wins a year.

by Crootin' on Nov 30, 2011 1:07 PM EST reply actions  

This^

I don’t know where this misconception that Ole Miss fans expect 9 wins every year comes from. If a coach can come in and win 6-7 games a year, punctuated by an 8 or 9 win season every once in a while, I think the fan base would be more than content. That shit about 7 wins tiding Nutt over for only one more season is ridiculous; had he beat Kentucky and LA Tech he could have very possibly kept his job with 4 wins. Had he won 7 this year we would have built him a fucking statue.

That was a called play, and I called it Brotha!!! HYYAAAAAAAA!!!!!!

by Catfish Powe-boy on Nov 30, 2011 5:22 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

That...

…made me giggle…

The Virginia quake that registered in August 2011 was the direct result of the United States Government bouncing a $14 Trillion Check.

by tlcreb17 on Dec 1, 2011 1:23 PM EST up reply actions  

He's right about our lack of resources but he's wrong about the expectations.

To say that a couple of 7-6 seasons would have “bought Nutt another year” is ridiculous. Had Nutt followed up the Cotton Bowl seasons with two 7-win seasons and two more bowls, we wouldn’t be having this conversation.

by ssmund on Nov 30, 2011 1:30 PM EST reply actions  

This idea that Ole Miss fans "expect" greatness is dumb.

Mexter nailed it. We expect to not lose games to LA Tech, Vandy, and Kentucky.

Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Sports are chaotic and stupid; and we're bad at them.

by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Nov 30, 2011 1:51 PM EST reply actions  

Add Jacksonville State to that list

Also, the author fails to point out that Cutcliff was dealing with serious health issues (he couldn’t even take the HC job at Notre Dame) and Nutt had lost control of the team (plus, Nutt won those bowl games using players recruited by his predecessor).

by goulajamz on Nov 30, 2011 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Thank you...

The Virginia quake that registered in August 2011 was the direct result of the United States Government bouncing a $14 Trillion Check.

by tlcreb17 on Dec 1, 2011 1:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Mandel went haywire last year over the Masoli deal.

This from the same guy who wrote:

Masoli move latest proof Houston Nutt is a certifiably dirty coach

Regardless of your views of the Masoli transfer, Mandel’s piece was an over-the-top hatchet job. I rarely make comments like “such and such national writer hates Ole Miss,” but this fucker does. I would never say that “such and such national writer is trying to make sure that no decent coach takes the OM job,” but that’s exactly what this biased prick is up to.

A Football Program is a Terrible Thing to Waste.

by sutpens100 on Nov 30, 2011 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Some of these twits...

…have watched Mississippi Burning, and talked to the coaches we recruit against and hear the stories of how the James Merideth event takes place every year on campus, so they make assumptions without even coming to campus and doing a whit’s worth of actual research.

Then they dump on us with their “word processor.”

Truth…I was in radio and had a new partner than moved here from Ithaca, NY. He admitted to me that his family warned him and advised him to watch Mississippi Burning to learn about what happens here.

He degectedly hung his head and admitted he was so wrong to do that. He had the exact same complaints we all have about how backward some of our fellowe citizens are, but he said in many ways, Ithaca has more of a race problem and “redneck problem” than WE do.

This is why I have a strong-seated anger, distrust, and scepticism about ANY writer on a natinal publication staff.

The Virginia quake that registered in August 2011 was the direct result of the United States Government bouncing a $14 Trillion Check.

by tlcreb17 on Dec 1, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Mandel's hate goes back a lot further than the 1960s....

In his awful 2007 book Bowls, Polls, and Tattered Souls (apparently published by google), he makes this illuminating observation

"[Tailgating in the Grove is] a scene so beatific it makes you temporarily forget that many of these people’s ancestors owned slaves."

Apparently, his dislike for Ole Miss is based at least in part on the actions of our ancestors 160+ years ago. Nevermind that the same comment could be made about university fan bases across the country.

A Football Program is a Terrible Thing to Waste.

by sutpens100 on Dec 1, 2011 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Whose ancestors exactly?

I bet if you actually looked at the geneology of Ole Miss students (or any student body in the South), the percentage of them who are the descendants of American slave owners would be in the low single digits. Like, maybe 2 or 3%, and even that might be a stretch.

Why is this? Well, the black, asian, and other minority students certainly aren’t such. Neither are any of the international exchange students. So let’s look at the white kids.

A huge portion of people living in the South are the children of grandchildren of people who didn’t prior to the Civil War. A lot of this has to do with European immigration during the late 19th and early 20th Centuries (you Polish or Irish? Chances are your family came over after the Civil War. My mother’s family counts here; they’re Czech and German and immigrated to Texas after the Civil War) and even more with this has to do with people moving from the East Coast and Midwest to the Sun Belt starting in the 1960’s (my father’s family counts in this regard – they moved from Masachusetts to Texas in the 1970’s… you caught that, didn’t you).

And then there’s the very simple fact that most white people living in the South at the time didn’t own slaves anyway. Honestly, I’d say there may be MORE white people living in the South who aren’t the decendants of Civil War veterans than those who are, but that’s just a hunch (which makes the “terdishuns” crowd even more laughable, if true).

Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Sports are chaotic and stupid; and we're bad at them.

by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Dec 1, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I suspect...

a lot of people have backgrounds similar to mine. My grandmother’s grandparents all immigrated to the US in the early 20th century, so I’m positive none of them owned slaves. The rest of my family was in the southern US during the civil war, but most of them (at least the ones I know about) were subsistence farmers who were happy if they owned shoes. They damn sure never owned a slave. And I know of at least one great, great, great grandfather who was in the CSA. As far as I know, he joined up because that’s what everyone his age was doing and he didn’t want to look weak.

I’m so sick of crap like Mandel shovels around. What do we have to do to move past this? I’m not saying we should forget that it ever happened, because we all need to learn from past mistakes. But what can we do to keep people from associating us with things people did and attitudes people had decades ago? Will things improve over time? I honestly don’t know.

by DTMB on Dec 1, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

It was just a bitch move

to bring up slavery. Hell, I can bear with him saying “You may forget that there was a race riot here” because plenty of alumni were in school then and are still alive today. It’s tangible, you can understand how the effects of that still linger.

But goddamn, by the time slavery ended, Ole Miss was all of 17 years old.

That slavery shit really got under my skin. Mandel, you are a cunt.

"A wizard is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to."-Gandalf

by Mexter Dccluster on Dec 1, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I wonder if he brings up riots when he talks about Kent State?

Or George Wallace when he talks about Alabama.

I’m guessing not.

by Catfish Row on Dec 3, 2011 1:31 AM EST up reply actions  

Mandel is a fucking hypocrite

I could just as easily make a bullshit generalization about his alma mater.

Walking through the campus at Northwestern is a scene so quaint it makes you temporarily forget that many of these people’s ancestors came to North America with guns and small pox and nearly killed off an entire race.

by goulajamz on Dec 3, 2011 3:15 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

My ancestors lived in The Free State of Jones

We fought the Confederacy with Newt Knight. We didn’t own any slaves though a few of em may have married some.

Graduated University of Mississippi Leonard McCoy School of Medicine, 2481

by SkylarkThibedeau on Dec 2, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions  

The Free State of Jones

is one of the most interesting aspects of MS civil war history. It’s like our own little West Virginia.

"A wizard is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to."-Gandalf

by Mexter Dccluster on Dec 2, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't Look at Me

My mom’s side of the family didn’t even get off the boat until 1889. No slave owners in my entire Ole Miss attending family (me, my mom, uncle, aunt, and about two dozen cousins). It really pisses me off when people make that fucking assumption about people who go to Ole Miss.

by Catfish Row on Dec 3, 2011 1:29 AM EST up reply actions  

What a dick!

Man, he is still butthurt about us canning Cutcliff. What the hell does he care.

That’s the issue with these national media types: they have to produce bullshit descriptions of teams in broad strokes, but they destroy nuance. And then make SUPER unfortunate statements like that in the process. Barf.

Tebowing (will always be): not trying hard enough, then crying like a bitch

by Old HWY 6 on Dec 1, 2011 10:13 PM EST up reply actions  

maybe he is referring to my ansectors,

in the Natchez tribe. We had many slaves from other tribes long before white face arrived.

Warning: I am a Chinese Spam Robot.

by SloansQB4HC on Dec 2, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

besides,

me thinks this poopy head Mandel points his race baited fingers at others to hide or deflect attention from his own racial issues, and has a deep seated un-resolved anger issue with his father because dad took his GI Joe with lifelike hair and Kung Fu grip because he didn’t want his boy playing with damn doll babies.

Warning: I am a Chinese Spam Robot.

by SloansQB4HC on Dec 2, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions  

Dicksnuggler?

Ha! You get a rec for that alone.

by DTMB on Dec 2, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

We may not "expect" greatness

but, personally, I would like to at least be competitive again. I fell into a void of nostalgia recently recounting the 2003 season with a friend. In the middle of the season I remember feeling like “shit, we might not lose another game”. We were competitive then. Of course, we did have 3 classic WAOM moments (see: Memphis State, LSU, and TT games) but we were right there in the running for the division and the conference. I think sometimes we forget it’s actually possible that Ole Miss can be great again.

Now that may be a few years from now but there is no reason we can’t attract a solid HC and some recruits in the meantime. We’ve done it before and we can do it again but I agree with Mexter we need to be able to handle non-con teams, Vandy and UK, and maybe just maybe win some bigger games too. Mandel is just like all the other douche canoe writers who wanna kick us while we are down.

by Marty McReb on Nov 30, 2011 2:35 PM EST reply actions  

I agree

we just have to establish consistency first. We can’t expect greatness until a 6-6 season is consistently disappointing. I know of zero Ole Miss fans who would have been disappointed had Nutt gone 12-12 the past two seasons. But 6 and fucking 18 is unreasonable.

"A wizard is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to."-Gandalf

by Mexter Dccluster on Nov 30, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions  

This is my plan:

Win 5 of 6 nonconference games every 2 years, beat Vandy 3 out of 4, 3 out of 5 (or a split) with State, 3 out of 5 for lesser opponents, and knock off a top 15 to 20 once every 3 years – I think we’d be in the 7-8 average win range. Which equals respect.

by Crootin' on Nov 30, 2011 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Indeed,

look at Les Miles at OK State. OK State was mediocre before he came in (and T Boone Pickens to be fair). Les Comes in and goes 28-21 over the course of 4 sesaons. That’s an average of 7-5. Then Gundy comes in and starts winning 9 and 10 consistently. Then in a season where Texas is way down while A&M and OU underachieve and all of the sudden, despite a bad loss to Iowa State, they’re sitting at 12-1.

"A wizard is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to."-Gandalf

by Mexter Dccluster on Nov 30, 2011 4:29 PM EST up reply actions  

we have 4 nonconference games and play 12 total not fiften

by texas1rebel on Nov 30, 2011 5:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Crootin didn't say that we did...

I’m assuming you’re referring to this part:

I think we’d be in the 7-8 average win range. Which equals respect.

Crootin is saying that we’d be winning 7 or 8 games on average.

"A wizard is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to."-Gandalf

by Mexter Dccluster on Nov 30, 2011 5:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Could you not get the point without finding an error?

I realize we play 4 non-conference games, it should have said 5 “or” 6 instead “of”. I would like to win ALL our non-conference games, but when you consider the upcoming non-conference schedule, it’s a stretch.

As far as the average of 7-8, figure it out.

by Crootin' on Nov 30, 2011 6:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Either Houston Nutt paid him to say this with the excess $6 mil

Or he’s the same guy that said we’d have a decent offensive line this year.

by muttinthehut on Nov 30, 2011 4:35 PM EST reply actions  

The beginning was strong but the finish

was fan-fuckin’ tastic. The bit about the Titanic was particularly illustrative. Well done to you and HandsomSam.

"A wizard is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to."-Gandalf

by Mexter Dccluster on Nov 30, 2011 10:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, nice work guys

You’d think after the Masoli thing, he’d give the school props for canning Nutt. But of course he’s a fucking dick trying to sell SI’s ham-fisted college football coverage.

Tebowing (will always be): not trying hard enough, then crying like a bitch

by Old HWY 6 on Dec 1, 2011 8:21 AM EST up reply actions  

God I hope one of you gets a response.

I am sick of hearing about the unreasonable expectations of our fans. There is a big fucking difference between “expecting” a New Years Day bowl and “expecting” not to consistently lose to I-AA schools and non-conference opponents.

"They score so fast it messes you up" - Houston Nutt

by Crootin' on Nov 30, 2011 10:20 PM EST up reply actions  

The echo chamber.

Mandel probably hangs out with Bo Bounds.

"A wizard is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to."-Gandalf

by Mexter Dccluster on Nov 30, 2011 10:26 PM EST up reply actions  

So true.

the nervous light of Sunday

by A Fan's Notes on Nov 30, 2011 10:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Chillin' and grillin'

Livin’ the y’all lifestyle.

Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Sports are chaotic and stupid; and we're bad at them.

by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Dec 1, 2011 6:54 AM EST up reply actions  

What's the Game Day Beer?

One long, insufferable infomercial powered by bullshit…

A Football Program is a Terrible Thing to Waste.

by sutpens100 on Dec 1, 2011 9:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Alright,

today, we’re going to have a C-Spire Wireless rep talk about his opinions on football while I tell people to buy my clothes that are more expensive rip-offs of the “Life is Good” brand.

"A wizard is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to."-Gandalf

by Mexter Dccluster on Dec 1, 2011 10:53 AM EST up reply actions  

"...but first let's knock back some super-chilled Mississippi distilled Cathead Vodka...

…which we keep on hand at all times in our Yeti Coolers, the official Out of Bounds cooler, live from Turquoise Place, the official Redneck Riviera condominiums…"

A Football Program is a Terrible Thing to Waste.

by sutpens100 on Dec 1, 2011 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

They've got some big boy trucks

for you big boy businessmen.

Can we have a Bo Bounds hate week?

"A wizard is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to."-Gandalf

by Mexter Dccluster on Dec 1, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

How could I have forgotten his "big boy" vocabulary!

PLEASE let’s have a Bo Bounds Hate Week.

A Football Program is a Terrible Thing to Waste.

by sutpens100 on Dec 1, 2011 2:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Ha..."sack Nutt"...clever, clever.

Did you juxtapose those words on purpose or am I the only one who thinks about “junk” like that?

the nervous light of Sunday

by A Fan's Notes on Nov 30, 2011 10:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Standing "O"...

…and I don’t mean this guy:

The Virginia quake that registered in August 2011 was the direct result of the United States Government bouncing a $14 Trillion Check.

by tlcreb17 on Dec 1, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I just bursted into laughter in the middle of work

at the Titanic statement. Thanks for making me look like an ass.

That was a called play, and I called it Brotha!!! HYYAAAAAAAA!!!!!!

by Catfish Powe-boy on Dec 1, 2011 5:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Hell, it was for a good cause.

Thanks for letting me know.

A Football Program is a Terrible Thing to Waste.

by sutpens100 on Dec 1, 2011 7:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Can I Get A Poster Size Copy of This?

With Mandel’s face X’d out and a copy of my cancelled SI subscription, please?

by muttinthehut on Dec 1, 2011 8:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I turned both of you Mandel-hatin' letter-writin' e-mailin' sumbitches GREEN.

And proud to be the one to say thank you in that way for defending our honor and our right to hope for mediocrity. Tip o’ the hat to Sam and Sutpen.

the nervous light of Sunday

by A Fan's Notes on Nov 30, 2011 10:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Who cares?

What that moron thinks…. we ARE the underdogs and we will be on top.

I’m good with a 6-6 season with a team as young as we had. Nutt was a nut. We will get a good (my mind is changing as the search lengthens) coach. We had a hell of a recruiting class last year and they all got valuable experience.

2012 coaching predictions:

Mullen to Penn State (chumo)
Hudspeth to State – loyalties are definitely with the fact that he’s next in line.
Kirby Smart to Ole Miss ’ cause Leach = success…
- That hire hinges on one thing… Who’s running the O?
- If the Mullen to Penn State thing doesn’t work out… i’ll take anyone that can shut him the hell up.

by jhamz447 on Dec 1, 2011 12:09 AM EST reply actions  

Ole Miss may not be the Best, but it certainly isnt the worst

The limited resources, location, and only average facilities may prevent Ole Miss from landing a top-tier prospect but we should still land a successful, proven leader from the head coaching or assistant coaching ranks. I personally think Smart will hold out for a better position and there may be too much competition for Fedora who has ties to A&M and is on several schools’ wish list. We must find the right man, but once we do we had better sign him up quickly.There will be more openings coming, and perhaps some more qualified coaches will become available in the shuffle.

by TheLitWit on Dec 2, 2011 1:49 PM EST reply actions  

Ole Miss is one of top four or five openings

A quick perusal of the current openings suggests that Ole Miss is one of the better openings out there, with only Texas A&M and UCLA being clearly a better gig. Several big-name programs, such as Penn State, have too much NCAA or legal baggage to deal with, while the SEC West is a formidable challenge, it also offers a tremendous upside in recruiting, prestige, and professional opportunity. Ole Miss fans’ REASONABLE expectations are a very positive factor, and the fanbase’s reputation may have been tarnished by Boone’s hasty removal of Cutcliffe, etc. Go Rebs!!!

by TheLitWit on Dec 2, 2011 1:57 PM EST reply actions  

I would suggest

that UCLA is not a better place than Ole Miss. UCLA has severe budgetary restraints and poor alumi support. They expect to compete in the PAC 12 by paying a coach less than $1 million? Naw dude.

"A wizard is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to."-Gandalf

by Mexter Dccluster on Dec 2, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn't want a coach who reads Stewie Mandel, much less believes him.

Mandel’s style has been characterized as “breezy and airy” which may more appropriately describe his hollow cranium. While many sportswriters strive to be provocateurs to boost readership and blog response, Stewie’s mean-spirited and narrow-minded bigotry precludes any critical reader from taking him seriously. His reference to delusional expectations by Ole Miss fans clearly demonstrates his ignorance, and I say this based on numerous objective perspectives by disinterested friends and acquaintances. If anything, within the SEC Ole Miss fans are considered too tolerant and forgiving, as our modest mediocrity on the field has proven over the past three decades. The AD’s premature firing of Cutcliffe and the earlier defection of Turberille has tarnished the program’s image, but fan support has consistently been reasonable and positive.

by TheLitWit on Dec 2, 2011 2:11 PM EST reply actions  

National Football Foundation

This might be old news but I just learned that Archie is the chairman of the NFF. It is, among other things, responsible for the College Football Hall of Fame, the Campbell Trophy, and tabulating weekly BCS rankings.

His connections to the football the community continue to impress me. No doubt he has some good candidates in mind.

by goulajamz on Dec 3, 2011 3:35 AM EST reply actions  

The great thing about having Archie in charge of this is that he gets our foot in the door.

“Coach so-and-so, Pete Boone is on the line” doesn’t have the same weight as “Coach so-and-so, Archie Manning is on the line.”

Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Sports are chaotic and stupid; and we're bad at them.

by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Dec 3, 2011 10:52 AM EST up reply actions  

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