Friday Question: Tainted Expectations
Generally, we are the "authors" of "content" around here - "here" being a blog and not a message board. And generally, Ivory Tower does this silly bit on Tuesdays. I'm the Ghost of Jay Cutler, though, and I'm doing this shit on a Friday to make your early weekend a smidge less enjoyable. I am a mean-spirited person like that. Recognize, we do, that you've come here not to contribute, but to consume. Nevertheless, there is the sporadic occasion where, either for our benefit or for to exercise the thinkifiers of the masses, we ask you a question. Today's question is ...
Would a win over Jacksonville State have allowed us to avoid such a post-Vanderbilt fallout?
HEY WE LOST TO VANDERBILT DOESN'T THAT SUCK?! Alright, we've talked about it a lot, almost to the point that we've ignored our upcoming match against the west coast bulldogs, but this post will be the end of it, I swear.
Something that has been in the back of my mind over the past few days regarding the overall sour reaction we've all been understandably displaying is the question as to whether or not we'd be so "woe is us" had we not lost to Jacksonville State. Consider these sobering facts:
- Ole Miss has lost to Vanderbilt four of the last six times we've played them.
- Ole Miss has not defeated Vanderbilt twice in a row since 2003-04.
- Ole Miss' all time record against Vanderbilt is 47-36-2.
- Ole Miss has not won its first SEC game since 2003. The Rebels did open SEC play with a victory in 2002 as well, but the last SEC-opening victory before that was 1992.
- Yes, that means that Ole Miss has won a whopping three of the past nineteen (!) SEC openers.
As much as I've criticized the coaches and players (for the most part, all parties deserve all of the criticism that has been thrown their way), what happened on Saturday was, per Ole Miss' pathetic early-season standards, actually quite normal. Losing season-openers and losing to Vanderbilt aren't exactly things we needed to hire Houston Nutt to "accomplish". As tough as it is, even in hindsight, to admit, if one tosses out talent, coaching, location, and all of those intangibles in favor of the great intangible of history, the most likely outcome of Saturday's game was a Vanderbilt win.
So why were we all so pissed? Well, this Vanderbilt team does suck pretty bad, and we've got the horses to have beaten the hell out of them and simply didn't. But I posit to you that the Jacksonville State game - undeniably an abberation of epic fucking proportion - has done more to set the tone and narration of this season than anything else we could have imagined. Had we defeated Jacksonville State and then lost to Vanderbilt, we'd be shrugging our shoulders with an "oh well, that sucks, but it's happened before" as opposed to calling for our coaches to be fired and our players flogged in public.
What say you?
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Well it stands to reason
we would be much happier with a 2-1 record than a 1-2 record at this point. That said I can’t speak for everyone, but I’d still be pretty mad with a loss to Vandy. Clearly not as mad, but we have to stop losing to teams like that and stop playing down to the level of our competition. Almost any loss other than Tulane would have been more bearable than the Jacksonville St. loss. So in summation I’d be less frustrated at this point with just a Vandy loss, but who wouldn’t?
by hottytoddy07 on Sep 24, 2010 10:16 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I get your point...
But i dont think playing DOWN to our competition is the problem. The competition is kicking our ass right now. We were lucky to leave NOLA with a win. Tulane just simply didnt get it done when they had their chances. This isnt a good Rebel football team. Its not even mediocre at this point.
by ThemRebsIsHellDontThey on Sep 24, 2010 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Silver lining
First of all, nice job working in the term “taint” – even in its derivative form. Second, I hate the way our season has started, but in a way, I think a silver lining exists that could benefit us in the future. Nutt needed a reminder that we at Ole Miss won’t just kiss his ass because he’s Houston Dale Nutt. I think he has some delusions about being the “savior” of Ole Miss football and that he’s untouchable. He may be the best coach we could hope for (at least for now), but he’s gotta know that he has to produce on the field or he’ll be out of a job. Hopefully, after all the vitriol thrown his way these last few weeks, he’s gotten the message and this crap won’t happen again.
by Johnny Lawrence on Sep 24, 2010 10:34 AM EDT reply actions
Yes, it would have.
Ole Miss’ struggles with Vanderbilt are implicit in your very username, Ghost. We have come to accept (albeit begrudgingly) that the Vanderbilt game is one we will probably have to wipe from our collective memory. Except that in previous seasons, other successes have allowed us to do so more easily.
It does not seem to be the case this year that key wins down the stretch will afford us that same luxury we have enjoyed before. Perhaps bourbon will ausage our grief, instead?
Catch it in ur mouth like ur last name Moss...
I personally feel the opposite.
Had we won the first 2, I would have been expecting to beat Vandy, even with our historically shitty record against them and in SEC openers. We have a much more talented team (or I thought so anyway) and this year’s version of Vandy is, theoretically, infinitely beatable. I would have been much more surprised and angry about losing to Vandy had we not shit the bed in such a horrifying fashion against Jax State. As it is, after losing to Jax State and demonstrating the same deficiencies in the Tulane game, I was not at all surprised that we lost to Vandy, and was in fact sort of numb to it and pretty much over it as soon as the game ended. That Jax State game so thoroughly lowered my expectations for the season that even before the Vandy game I was expecting us to win a maximum of 5 games. Now I’m guessing a max of 3 (4 if we get super-motivated to pee in State’s cheerios), and will not be at all surprised if the only team we manage to beat is the Ragin’ Cajuns.
Absolutely agree.
I think of all the recent Vandy losses, this one bothers me the least. That is, in large part, because of us losing to Jax State.
It wasn't that we lost to Vandy that made me mad...
but the way we lost. One would hope that, especially after an embarrassing 1-1 start to the season, with the loss to Jax St of all teams, that our team would come out with a little more fire and determination than what we’ve witnessed thus far. I understand our record vs. Vandy doesn’t automatically give us reason to believe it will be a W ever, but I think I can honestly say for everybody here that no one believed we’d give up 200+ yds on the ground to Vandy, including 4 runs resulting in 4 TDs and 158 yds alone! Where have our leaders along the front 7 gone to? I might expect that kind of performance through the air, but not on the ground. Ever.
Agreed
The performance against Vandy alone would be cause for concern moving forward.
At first I was a bit put off by this question, but now I think this is valid before Fresno. It requires an evaluation of the last game for what it is.
Our two losses are drastically different, frustrating their comparison. Against Vandy, we weren’t caught sleeping by a dog to lose in OT, but we were continually outplayed by a dog and lost by 14. As Fresno appears better than Vandy, addressing the mistakes made against the Dores is the only way our team will beat Fresno.
by victory drive on Sep 24, 2010 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Better Question?
In my opinion, a better question may be “Would you rather lose to Vandy and take the conference loss or lose to a WAC squad?”
I’m thinking about all of the great points some of the previous readers have made, and agree with most of them. If Ferbia or Brandon catches the damn ball (“JUSTCATCHTHADAMNBALLLLL” I’ve muttered to myself all week), then maybe our Rebs don’t have the sense of urgency against Fresno after being just as exposed against Vandy. Yeah, JSU was embarrassing. But how embarrassing would it be, nationally, for a SEC school to lose to a WAC (Weak-Ass-Conference) school? The ESPN talking heads would never let that one die in the whole “which conference is most well-endowed” debates. I can hear Herbstreit now after the SEC wins another BCS Championship: “Sure they’ve won the last five national titles, but you can’t make an argument for the SEC as the dominant conference when Fresno State can go into Oxford and beat an Ole Miss.” Jeez.
So, I’d rather lose to Vandy, have Hoot’nDale refocus, and get our basic shit together than let a team that the PAC 10 doesn’t want come into our house and win.
I don't think it would have mattered
It would certainly be better to have our team sitting here at 2-1 instead of 1-2 right now. And beating Jacksonville State may have lessened the degree of pain associated with the loss to Vandy. It is always better to win than lose, but even if we had barely eeked out a victory over JSU I would still be disappointed. There are so many things wrong with this team it is ridiculous, and it makes it harder to accept knowing that talent does exist on this squad. At least in the Coach O days we were young and significantly less talented than the teams we played, so losing was expected. Now, I watch us play and see talent (maybe not first-round pick talent, but talent nonetheless) everywhere except O-line and defensive secondary. The coaching has been subpar, the execution has been worse, and most curiously- the players have appeared disinterested. I am not sure if the disinterest is due to coaching, lack of motivation/leadership, or what- but that has been the hardest thing to observe.
Dream Coaching Trio
Nutt-Head Coach
Austin-Off. Cord.
Orgeron-Def. Cord./Recruiting
Mickey Goldmill-Strength & Conditioning
It always seems to...
me that we have two seasons every year, the one that runs up to the Alabama game and then everything after the Alabama game. If we’re going to have success, it usually seems to come in the everything-after-the-Alabama-game part of the season.
For years, Rebel football teams have muddled through the early games and then suddenly come to life in October, usually after taking our almost annual whipping at the hands of the Crimson Tide. Maybe it’s the pressure of doing something great (beating Alabama) and then having the pressure removed when it doesn’t happen. Of course, back when we opened up the season with Auburn it was, well, sort of expected that we would open 0-1. Tulane has never been a cakewalk (anyone remember the great Buford Magee season?)
When I was a freshman, we lost back to back against Baylor and Texas A&M on the road, before er’ a snap was taken in old Hemmingway, then finsihed 6-5. We’ve fought for our life against Central Florida, nearly given it up to Arkansas State and had the ultimate humiliation of losing to Mississippi Southern when we were some 20 points ahead at halftime (Sound familiar). Then there is the after Alabama season, where it is not unusual to rip off 5 or 6 big wins in seasons when we have decent teams.
I don’t know, but we may not have an after Alabama season this year. It’s still hard to tell. Losing to vandy is tough any time, but this season, it may more of a look at things to come than just an early season fluke.
We're Shitty
Seriously. This doesn’t have anything to do with Vanderbilt getting really psyched to play us, and only us, for some odd reason. The 2010-2011 Ole Miss Rebels are a bad football team. Really bad. Regardless of whether or not we beat JSU, if we looked as shitty as we did against Tulane, honestly if Tulane hadn’t choked away that game in NOLA, we’d be 0-3, and deserve it, and then lost to Vandy, I think people would be reaching for the panic button, albeit maybe with somewhat less urgency than they are now. Assuming everything else being the same, but we beat JSU (either in regulation or OT), then look like shit in a win against Tulane, then lose to Vandy, and then get throttled by Fresno State, people would be screaming for blood just as they are now.
Yes, I’m assuming, regardless of how we did against JSU, this football team loses to Fresno. 2-2, with losses against Vandy and Fresno, and wins against a 1-AA team and Tulane would still lead to gut-check time and some serious panicking.
The loss to JSU mattered.
There would have been excitement and confidence going into the next couple of games; instead there was despair and worry. Fans don’t care now; they still would have if we went into the Vandy game 2-0 regardless of how we did it. And the loss to Vandy, as you clearly show above, would have been status quo. People would have been excited, even at 2-1 with a shitty loss to Vandy, to see what happens this weekend. Instead, we are all hoping that there is actually something to this football team and trying to trick ourselves into not caring about football anymore.
The JSU loss mattered.
I'm a Rebel, but I bleed the cherry and silver of the Lobos.
As the Ghost of Jay Cutler in another thread...
“It’s really time to just fuhgeddaboutit.”
This thread is about as “what if” as one can get. One might as well ask, “Would we have lost to Vandy if we still had David Cutcliffe?”
Woulda, shoulda, coulda, didn’t. It’s a poor, dismal season to be a Rebel football fan.

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