Did Dan Mullen Really Win an Instate Recruiting Battle?
When I got hired here, I wanted to make a statement by recruiting the state of Mississippi very hard. We went out and recruited 16 players from Mississippi this year which is more than Southern Miss and The University Of The School Up North combined.
--Dan Mullen, Signing Day Press Conference, 2/3/2010
No fewer than several dozen times during his National Signing Day press conference did Dan Mullen make mention of his desire to establish himself and his program as the premier recruiter of Mississippi high school talent. And, if you were to ask him or any of the thousands upon thousands of enamored supporters he has somehow amassed, you would know that he is thought of as having done just that.
But did he? If he really were to have "won" the instate recruiting battle, how exactly would one reach such a conclusion? And is doing such necessarily a good thing?
Let's approach this as methodically as a bloggeur hopped up on caffeine and suffering from a severe case of real life procrastination can. First, we'll determine what exactly it means to "win" the state of Mississippi in recruiting.
Would that mean hauling in the best prospect in Mississippi? No, and it shouldn't because such an exercise as recruiting, whose success depends on several variables, cannot be graded by one. Furthermore, that'd mean Auburn "won" the state of Mississippi for inking the much coveted signature of the state's top prospect, Shon Coleman.
Would that mean hauling in the most prospects in Mississippi? Also no, but don't tell that to Dan Mullen and the oafs who follow him, because that is exactly what their criterion for making such a claim has become. Doing such assumes all players to have been created equal; they aren't. Some are better than others -- much better, in fact. We know this not only based on their star counts, their position rankings, and their listed physical attributes, but also by the types of programs who pursue particular players. The folly of such an argument is best summed up with One Man to Beat's potato chip analogy he presented during Red Cup Radio last night (paraphrasing):
So you're sharing a bag of chips with a guy and you get all of the really good chips you want -- the big, crunchy ones with just enough seasoning -- and you're happy. Your buddy then rifles through the bag, snags up some more big crunchy ones, and then keeps the rest of the bag, crumbs and all, to himself.
"I got more chips I win!"
"You win? What was the competition here? And anyway, you got shitty crumbs."
"Fuck yeah I love crumbs!"
High school athletes, just as with potato chips, are not interchangeable. Just getting warm bodies from a particular piece of geography to sign letters of intent does not a recruiting victory make.
So then would a victory in a state's recruiting battle mean hauling the most "elite" or "blue chip" prospects? Perhaps, if a few assumptions are made -- namely, the assumption that all of these higher-end prospects were sought after by the competing schools. Let's look at the top-10 players in the state of Mississippi and where they signed:
- OT Shon Coleman - Auburn
- WR Vincent Sanders - Ole Miss
- OT Damien Robinson - Mississippi State
- DE Carlos Thompson - Ole Miss
- ATH Michael Carr - Mississippi State
- DT Carlton Martin - Ole Miss
- TE Travis Dickson - LSU
- DE Kaleb Eulls - Mississippi State
- WR Robert Johnson - Mississippi State
- HB Nick Griffin - Mississippi State
In looking at the creme de la creme, the edge is slightly Ole Miss' with only two of the top seven committing to the Bulldogs. After that, and truly throughout the rest of the Mississippi recruiting rankings, the Bulldogs take over. When everything was said and done, sixteen Mississippi high school prospects made plans to enroll at Mississippi State while only seven opted for Ole Miss. After the aforementioned three, DT Bryon Bennett, TE Cordell Giles (a long-time Mississippi State commit), HB Nick Parker, and LS Will Denney round out the seven.
But what does that really mean? Are the in-state players that the Bulldogs inked better than the ones signed by the Rebels? While there's no surefire way to discern that, let's look at the matchups as best we can.
Carlos Thompson (4-star DE; #9 DE; #4 player in MS) vs. Kaleb Eulls (4-star DE; #18 DE; #8 player in MS) - Obviously, we got the better of the two defensive ends that shared Ole Miss and MSU offers. This does not suggest that we did not recruit Eulls, but it certainly does not hurt our class that he committed elsewhere. Ole Miss 1 - MSU 0.
Vincent Sanders (4-star WR; #15 WR; #2 player in MS) vs. Robert Johnson (4-star WR; #47 WR; #9 in MS) - Vincent Sanders is easily the better wideout, in terms of rankings. While the Rebels wanted Robert Johnson, Vincent Sanders was the #1 high school player on their board. Ole Miss 2 - MSU - 0
Nick Parker (3-star HB; #43 HB; #18 in MS) vs. Matthew Wells (3-star ATH; #36 ATH; #19 in MS) - Nick Parker is a tremendous halfback who played for the best high school football program in the state. Signing him was very big for us since it sets us up well for the future; it maintains the South Panola to Ole Miss pipeline. He's also a good player. Matthew Wells was a good signing for MSU as well. He should contribute on the gridiron, though we aren't likely to see as many elite prospects at Monticello as there are at South Panola. Still, it's a wash. Ole Miss 2 - MSU - 0.
Cordell Giles (3-star TE; #20 TE; #13; #17 in MS) vs. Jay Hughes(3-star ATH; NR at ATH; #24 in MS) - I'm not sure how well these player matchup, since they're quite different, but the number of players on MSU's board with Ole Miss offers is relatively small, so I didn't have a big pool from which to select this matchup. Since they can both play either side of the ball (Giles at TE or LB; Hughes at WR or CB), I thought they matched up the best. In this situation, Giles is the clear victor. He was once committed to MSU (telling us they wanted him) and ended up signing with Ole Miss at the last minute. He is ranked more highly and had better offers. I also think that most schools offered Hughes to get to Robert Johnson since they are good friends. Oh, and Jay Hughes' dad is on the State coaching staff. C'mon. Ole Miss 3 - MSU 0.
Will Denny (2 star LS; Unranked) vs. Damien Robinson (4-star OT; #21 OT; #3 player in state) - Congratulations. You win the OL matchup in-state. Your best offensive line signee is better than our walk-on at long snapper, our only OL signee from the state. Need I remind you that Damien Robinson wanted an Ole Miss offer at the end of his recruitment, after having lost his offers from everyone other than MSU, USM, and Memphis, but was not given one. Yeah, the Olive Branch star is a big body, but most SEC schools backed off of his recruitment because he is hardly a polished blocker. The point has to go to the Bulldogs though, since there was a time when we wanted Robinson. Ole Miss 3 - MSU 1.
Surely you're getting the point. We could keep doing this, going player by player, but then we'd have to dismantle our argument and begin comparing their prospects to the numerous guys from out of state that we signed.
Now consider this: of the sixteen Mississippians Dan Mullen and staff signed, only five -- Matthew Wells, Jay Hughes, Robert Johnson, Kaleb Eulls, and Damien Robinson -- had Ole Miss scholarship offers. Of course, there is the aforementioned talk that Damien Robinson's offer wasn't committable, so perhaps it was really only four. Conversely, of the seven Mississippians who faxed their LOI's to Oxford, all but one, longsnapper Will Denney, had offers to play at Mississippi State. So, aside from the obligatory Jackson private school special teams player, State was actively pursuing every Mississippian we signed.
Essentially, Mullen signed a half of a platoon's worth of players that our Rebel coaching staff did not want playing football for them. How this is somehow being spun as some sort of victory, and successfully at that, is stunning.
The question then becomes whether or not this is even a worthwhile tactic to begin with. I, as member of the Magnolia State diaspora, am proud of our state's football heritage. Brett Favre, Steve McNair, Archie Manning, Walter Peyton, Jerry Rice, Lance Alworth, and numerous other gridiron legends call Mississippi their home. However, I shantlet this state pride interfere with the fairly well-proven notion that Mississippi cannot produce enough talent to compete in the SEC on a high level. Louisiana can feed great Tiger teams as can Florida with the Gators; but a team comprised exclusively of Mississippians would be no better than eight or nine wins a season on average. It would be a tough team, it would be a physical team, and it would be a competitive team -- but it certainly wouldn't dominate. The state is too small and rarely produces elite skill-position players, especially quarterbacks.
Remember, Mississippi has about 2.8 million people. The Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex alone has double that. The same can almost be said about the Miami metropolitan area. By opening up Ole Miss recruiting to areas beyond Mississippi, our potential pool of talent has increased by leaps and bounds. Of course we are never going to steal a highly-recruited four- or five-star player from the powerhouses within their home states, but there will be plenty of players left who can add nicely to our depth chart and contribute to our football successes. If they are out there, we should recruit them.
(I could, at this point, back that assertion up with years and years of Rivals rankings, but I won't. If you're a Mississippian who follows Mississippi high school football and understands how that stacks up against other states, this is something you just know. Hopefully, "trust me on this one" will suffice here.)
But, from a public relations standpoint, I cannot fault Dan Mullen for this tactic . While not the path neither Ole Miss nor Mississippi State should take in order to both truly compete in the Southeastern Conference, one cannot deny the powerful effect this recruiting strategy has had on the Bulldog fanbase. It gives the maroon and white faithful something to be proud of, something they can rally around, something they can "win" during the offseason despite actually having "lost". It's brilliant, Dan. It truly is.
Fans of The School From Which Cardinal Directions Apparently Originate, in a uniquely Ole Miss-ian provincialism, have convinced themselves that bringing in sought-after talent from points beyond Mississippi's borders is somehow an inferior process to seeking out unheralded and otherwise unnoticeable talent from within the same.
What the followers of the Clakkity City Canines have yet to realize is this: Coach Dan Mullen is just doing what it takes to not get fired. He is telling his fans exactly what they want to hear. He's bringing in the good ol' Mississippi folk to play hard-working, honest boy ball, right here in the Magnolia State! He's not wasting his time going after dreadlocked punks from Florida. Who wants them, what, with all of their naturally badass physical capabilities and tattoos?! Down with the Rebels, he cries! He's touting a victory-ish in a poor recruiting tactic and preparing his team to play hard in what is literally the only football game that mattes in Starkville. He is succeeding at both, and laughing his ass off all the way to the First Bank of Oktibbeha County.
And now, a straw man pre-rebuttal:
HA fuk u TSUN webels 41-29!!!1
[ED: Rivals.com rankings were used in this analysis. Junior College players weren't counted because most of both school's JUCO signees aren't actually Mississippians. And spare the "recruiting rankings are wishy-washy and don't really matter" lecture because they're still good indicators of several things. And furthermore, if we're going to argue about who "won" in recruiting, what other criteria are we supposed to use? Also, big ups to Juco for helping with the research.]
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34 comments
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Comments
41-29
that’s some lol right there.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Destroying your traditions since [YEAR REDACTED].
by Ivory Tower on Feb 5, 2010 11:14 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Or you could just look at the players both schools pursued in-state.
I don’t know about Dickson, but we’ll leave him out since he was LSU bound all along.
Here is the list that both MSU and Ole Miss offered in state:
Shon Coleman – Auburn
Carlton Martin – Ole Miss
Byron Bennett – Ole Miss
Cordell Giles – Ole Miss
Nick Parker – Ole Miss
Vincent Sanders – Ole Miss
Carlos Thompson – Ole Miss
Kaleb Eulls – MSU
Damien Robinson – MSU
Robert Johnson – MSU
Matthew Wells – MSU
That’s 6 for Ole Miss, 4 for MSU in terms of the head-to-head in-state battles.
You can’t count Will Denny, because MSU didn’t offer him. You can’t count Love, Lewis, or the 12 other USM recruits that MSU signed either because Ole Miss didn’t offer them.
How can you lose a battle you never fought? We won more in-state battles than we lost this year. MSU lost more head-to-head in-state battles with us than they won.
If they want to claim superiority over USM, go ahead. I’m sure USM was really upset to miss out on all the prospects MSU stole from them head-to head.
by RebelBruiser on Feb 5, 2010 11:39 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
What? Did you mean to link something?
If so, put it in the body of the message
by BrianWalker'sElbow on Feb 5, 2010 12:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe can't see if blocked by photobucket?
by Thile on Feb 5, 2010 12:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh yeah
Ah, that is the problem. At work, and stuff is blocked
by BrianWalker'sElbow on Feb 5, 2010 2:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Haha!
This picture of Mullens as Cousin Eddie almost made me spit my drink out on my company laptop! Hilarious! Haha…
by GeauxToHellLSU on Feb 5, 2010 5:05 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Rec'ed!
That’s the best shit I’ve seen all week!
DAMN IT TO HELL!!! I WAS going to say something nice about LSU... but my clock ran out like theirs did against Ole Miss and Penn State. Dumb coonasses. I bet if they tied corndogs to the clock, they'd keep a better eye on it. heh.
by BimBamOleMissByDamn on Feb 5, 2010 6:04 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting way of looking at it...
I know this has been going back and forth with various newspapers, blogs, msg boards, so on and so forth.
I guess we’ll have to see the long term impact – is Mullen really being successful in spinning this…
I don’t have a favourable opinion of him obviously, but he does have the only on field result that counts, so far 41-2927 or whatever. It sucked to watch, I know that for damn sure.
Although I do like (Ivory’s?) line 41-27 is that the range of their recruiting class?
by Thile on Feb 5, 2010 12:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
State fans
I’m always amazed at how often State fans mention their hatred/dislike of “that School up North.” I swear if they won the National Championship, the first thing Mullen (or any other MSU coach) would say in his post game press conference is: “Yeah we played a good game, and Ole Miss hasn’t won a championship since the 60’s – nor will they ever.”
by E.H. Patterson 4 Life on Feb 5, 2010 2:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
By using the logic of Cousin Eddie....
Memphis out-recruited Tennessee and FIU out recruited Florida. Purely based on them pulling in more in-state recruits than their counterparts.
by pankReb on Feb 5, 2010 3:26 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
Fuck 'em
I’ll take being the The School Up North. That makes them the The School Beneath Us – in more ways than 1.
DAMN IT TO HELL!!! I WAS going to say something nice about LSU... but my clock ran out like theirs did against Ole Miss and Penn State. Dumb coonasses. I bet if they tied corndogs to the clock, they'd keep a better eye on it. heh.
by BimBamOleMissByDamn on Feb 5, 2010 6:07 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Also-
How do you spin the racism aspect of Ole Miss if they are the “Northern School”?
"HOT BOUDIN! COOOOOLD COUS COUS, COME ON TIGAHS, PUSH PUSH PUSH!"
by David. on Feb 5, 2010 7:23 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
And Another Also...
…how the Hell does a guy from the Philly ’burbs start talking about “The School Up North” without everyone just laughing in his face?
by HandsomeSam on Feb 5, 2010 7:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I think Soulja Boy sums up your argument pretty well.
by JimHalpert on Feb 5, 2010 10:09 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Fail.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfRgt5zcgtE
Pig Pen this here's Rubber Duck, and I'm about to put the hammer down.
by JimHalpert on Feb 5, 2010 10:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
For me state is really a non issue...
They have become like memphis to tennessee or memphis to us..I have lost the hate for state, don’t get me wrong I want to win the egg bowl, but I wasn’t upset about the loss considering the way we dominated tennessee, beat lsu and ark, I was more upset about the auburn loss.
I don’t even know why we are discussing them…
Ole Miss is recruiting like they should.. getting the best kids out of Mississippi and concentrating on getting kids out of texas, florida, as well as, georgia and alabama.
I would like to see us go to samoa and find a seau or polamatu.
Just a question….
Who will get fired first next in the SEC.. mullen, petrino richt, or miles?
by hotstove97 on Feb 5, 2010 10:17 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
I'm only commenting here to intercede between Gonzo's response to hotstove97, highlighting Gonzo's ignorance (here inability to use the reply button) in a new, fresh way.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Destroying your traditions since [YEAR REDACTED].
by Ivory Tower on Feb 8, 2010 12:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The obvious answer would be Les Miles.
Petrino will look like a genius after next season. He’ll improve Mallett , his O-line, WRs and RBS even more.
They will contend for the Western crown with ’Bama, Auburn, and LSU, while Ole Miss fights for 5 place with State.
Predictions:
Alabama
Arkansas
Auburn
LSU
Miss. St.
Ole Miss
Who will be the next SEC coach to flirt with a Big 12 school? You should all know the answer to that one.
Christopher Martin Gonzalez
by GonzoHog on Feb 7, 2010 11:10 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I should have said mediocre Big 12 school. Sorry, my bad.
Christopher Martin Gonzalez
by GonzoHog on Feb 7, 2010 11:12 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately for Petrino
in the SEC you are required to play defense after you play offense.
Ark and Ole Miss will duke it out for 4th place in the West next year.
Pig Pen this here's Rubber Duck, and I'm about to put the hammer down.
by JimHalpert on Feb 7, 2010 12:07 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yo, Gonzo...
How about we wait till something happens on the field before we start talking crap? Better yet, let’s at least wait until the Georgia game, because that will be the barometer to how much our D has improved. Even if we’re better next year, it still won’t guarantee a win against UMiss (see what I did there… I’m taking away your identity. Try and stop me!). Everyone knows HDN is a motivator and good at winning games he shouldn’t have a prayer of winning. Plus, he apparently doesn’t appreciate all that money we let him walk away with when he resigned, so he always talks up the Arkansas game like it’s the Superbowl (as evinced by the Gatorade shower after last year’s debacle).
So, yeah. Let’s hold off all the “Arkansas wins the West, Ole Miss will be luck to get 5th” rhetoric until the season starts.
by dxf04 on Feb 7, 2010 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Arkansas really should beat us.
You’ve got an experienced, talented quarterback who will be going up against a secondary made up of n00bs.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Take a picture, trick.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Feb 7, 2010 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Yo, dxf04...
I never said Arkansas wins the West. I posted they would finish 2nd to Alabama, but I did predict Ole Miss would finish last in the div. next season.
You ever made a prediction, or is that against your self-made rules of engagement?
Yes, defense does win championships. We’re not there, yet. No argument from me there.
Christopher Martin Gonzalez
by GonzoHog on Feb 7, 2010 11:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Motherfuckin learn to reply please.
omfgwtffrpstswtfp,gftbbb[[[[qqqq
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Take a picture, trick.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Feb 7, 2010 11:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Nice...
I give petrino & richt 2 years,
Miles has a HUGE buyout & until the economy recovers I think lsu is stuck with him. mullen will get 4 years if he beats us 1more time, 3 years if he doesn’t improve SEC record and has no more wins in the Egg bowl.
I think Petrino may bolt after next year, due to poor recruiting at arkansas and losing mallet. He may be the one to go to big 12 to A&M, Michigan, Arizona or some other job…
by hotstove97 on Feb 8, 2010 2:39 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
A friend of mine believes he's bound to return to the
NFL where he’ll be an OC or even a head coach once more. I don’t necessarily agree, but that’d be pretty damn funny if Arkansas is left searching for a coach while we still have Houston Nutt.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Take a picture, trick.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Feb 8, 2010 8:33 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't agree, either.
But, of course, I have a vested interest. He says he wants UA to be his last stop, which as far as I know, is not something he said at either Louisville or the Falcons. I do imagine that HDN will still be at OM when Petrino leaves, though. I don’t understand why everyone is talking about “poor recruiting”, like it’s a fact of life that he can’t recruit. Of the classes that are completely his, he had one top 20 class and one that barely cracked the top 50. There’s really not enough evidence to say which class in an anomaly. I will say, and you can call this blatant homerism if you want, that there’s no way that our class is as bad as 48, and I have “proof” later. For what it’s worth, Scout gave us B-, which I feel is about right.
I’ve lost my faith in Rivals. Look at Boston College, ranked right ahead of Arkanas. They have no 5-stars, like us, fewer 4-stars, fewer 3-stars, fewer recruits, AND a lower average star rating, yet they have more points that us, per Rivals’ formula? I think even the guys at the Cup can admit that a formula that will produce these results at least has some problems. Our class also compares favorably with #40 BYU (the only thing they lead us by is number of recruits, 27 to 25), yet they have 200+ more points than us.
Okay, I’m off my soapbox now.
by dxf04 on Feb 8, 2010 11:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

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