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The Chris Warren Conundrum

ED: Frontpag'd and rec'd. This is how good fanposts are done.

Chris Warren is one of the most explosive players in Ole Miss basketball history. The numbers he has put up, particularly form behind the arc, are going to leave his name scattered all over the Ole Miss and SEC record books. If not for the torn ACL as a sophomore, he'd have a real shot at 400+ 3-pointers.

So how the hell are we -23 over the last two games when he's on the floor?

Star-divide

Granted the +/- numbers don't tell the whole story of a player's value to the team. And it's easy to excuse a poor showing when you're down 30 at half on the road like the Rebels were at Miami (FL). But Chris's -12 against Miami was only one point better than the -11 he put up Saturday night against USM. Surprisingly, Terrance Henry (-3) and Reggie Buckner (-1) also registered negative numbers against the Golden Eagles, but none as robust as Warren. With the last 2 games, Chris has dropped to 8th on the team in total +/-, ahead of only Will Bogan and Demarco Cox.

Graham 40
Buckner 35
N Williams 22
Short 15
Henry 11
Gaskins 7
Nelson 6
Warren 4
Bogan -7
Cox -23

 

For the season, the Rebels are +4 when Chris is on the floor. When you consider that he's played 200 out 245 possible minutes, that equates to a whopping .8 points over a 40-minute game. Zach Graham tops the Rebels with a cumulative +40 in 173 minutes, which equates to nearly 10 ppg. Buckner's +35 over just 125 minutes equates to a team-leading 11.2 ppg.

When you look deeper into the numbers, it becomes even more confusing. While Chris has the highest points per minute average on the team at .55 ppm, the team scores 1.86 ppm when he's on the floor. Nick Williams and Buckner are tops with a team average of 1.98 ppm. Graham's 1.91 ppm, Dundrecous Nelson's 1.89 ppm, and Terrance Henry's 1.87 ppm all rank ahead of Warren's total. Some of that is the sheer number of shots Chris takes, sure, but there's also still a deference to Chris at times when he's on the floor. When he's off the floor, the other guys seem to be more aggressive to the basket.

It's hardly a surprise that Chris' best +/- effort was his +13 against Penn State. In that game, Trevor Gaskins buried 6 3s and was willing to shoot even when Chris was on the floor. That opened up the defense and allowed Warren to get into the lane and get fouled or dish the ball off. We've got to have that second scorer on a nightly basis to allow Chris to play in his comfort zone.

So what does it all mean? I know it doesn't mean bench Chris Warren. It does mean we are a significantly better team when Buckner stays on the floor. It does mean that we are significantly better team when guys other than Chris step up in games. There's a real chicken/egg situation when it comes to Chris' shot selection and the timidity that teammates show at times when Chris is out there.

Undoubtedly, Chris Warren's performance as a senior will go a long, long way in determining if we make the 3-letter or 4-letter tournament season. Here's hoping for big help for the little guy.

This post is a Red Cup Rebellion FanPost. Please don't sue us.

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Great post.

FMI, where do you find +/- info?

Red Cup Rebellion - An Ole Miss Blog
Turns out that we're not very good at football.

by Juco All-American on Dec 8, 2010 9:20 AM EST reply actions  

I've seen it for nba stats

but am having trouble finding it for college stats.

Red Cup Rebellion - An Ole Miss Blog
Turns out that we're not very good at football.

by Juco All-American on Dec 8, 2010 9:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Mad Excel skills yo

I calculated it out myself. There’s some variation of it on statsheet.com (which is about the coolest damn site on the web, no offense to RCR), but it doesn’t match up exactly with mine, plus it doesn’t give game-by-game, just a cumualtive.

I’ve always been interested in the behind the scenes stats in college basketball. Between statsheet and kenpom.com, I can get lost for hours. It helps paint a much clearer picture of a team or player than just ppg does.

I listen for the voice inside my head... nothin... I'll do this one myself

by buster_bluth on Dec 8, 2010 9:32 AM EST up reply actions  

We love statsheet.com

We plan to use it for the in-conference games.

Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Sports are chaotic and stupid; and we're bad at them.

by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Dec 8, 2010 9:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Nice work

I am a big fan of +/- statistics, but of course they must be taken with a grain of salt as they do not show the entire picture. I think these kind of statistics are the wave of the future, and NBA general managers and coaches are already starting to use them a good bit.

As for CW, where do you even start? I love the guy, and he has a knack for hitting big shots that help us win games (at Arky last year, vs. USM this year, etc.). I kind of view CW like a Kobe Bryant-type player for us. Obviously, he is not anywhere near as good as Kobe. I am probably going to butcher the statistic, since I don’t have it in front of me, but I think over the last several seasons the Lakers win like 80% of their games when Kobe takes between 10-20 shots (which amounts to about 20-25 ppg). When he takes between 20-30 they win about 50%, and when he takes more than 30 they win about 35%. The same is true for CW. When he scores between 13-18 points for us and adds about five assists, we are awfully hard to beat.

by bball1984 on Dec 8, 2010 1:53 PM EST reply actions  

I had those numbers somewhere through last season

I may have even posted them on here at some point last year, but the magic number for Chris is 14 shots or fewer. The games where he does that, ie the games where someone else steps up and takes that burden off him, are the ones we do the rest. If the defense can’t simply focus on him, we are a significantly better team. I’ll look tonight to see if I can find that info. If not, it’s pretty easy to compile.

All this seems painfully obvious typing it and discussing it here, but watching this team at times is remarkably frustrating.

I listen for the voice inside my head... nothin... I'll do this one myself

by buster_bluth on Dec 8, 2010 2:32 PM EST up reply actions  

No joke

These guys can easily look like a top 25 team one game, then turn around and look completely inept the next. That is the life of an Ole Miss Rebel fan though. I don’t know that I have ever watched a more puzzling squad than last year’s team.

The one thing that has given me more hope this season than in years past so far has been that lots of other guys have given us consistent scoring. I haven’t really seen a game yet where we were totally dependent upon CW’s scoring to get us the W, which is a big improvement over the past few years.

by bball1984 on Dec 8, 2010 2:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Which is why it all comes down to Buckner

Before a bad +/- showing against USM, he led the team in that category. He’s 2nd now behind only Graham. If he can just become a reliable 8-9 ppg scorer, this team would be tough to handle. A handful of drop-steps and other back-to-the-basket moves would make him an absolutel beast on both end of the floor.

And outside of the season opener against ArkSt, we haven’t been totally reliant on Chris’ offense. But he owned that 2nd half, and thankfully so.

I listen for the voice inside my head... nothin... I'll do this one myself

by buster_bluth on Dec 8, 2010 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Warren has always been a bit of a mixed bag.

He’s a talented shooter, there’s no question about it. He can drain 3s that help put games away for Ole Miss and get them back in games. But he also has a tendency to put up ridiculous shots that have no real chance of being made, throwing the ball up there with 27 seconds left on the shot clock. I’ve never thought about it that way before but bball1984’s idea seems to be a pretty accurate way to describe Warren just from what I know off the top of my head. If he controls his shot-making he’s a great asset, but when he starts firing off crazy shots as he’s sometimes prone to do things start to fall apart.

It’s pretty impressive the work you put into this Fanpost buster_bluth.

by Wild Rebel on Dec 8, 2010 2:13 PM EST reply actions  

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