Ingram not even close to deserving Heisman
by BimBamOleMissByDamn on Dec 7, 2009 4:04 PM EST
52 comments
Chris Low is nuts and so is anyone else that votes Bama's Mark Ingram as number 1 for the Heisman Trophy.
Ingram was barely the SEC's leading rusher before the title game - with 1429 yards and 12 TDs. Mississippi State's Anthony Dixon had 1391 yards with 12 TDs. If anything, Dixon was more valuable to a team than Ingram was.
Stanford's Toby Gerhart had 26 rushing TDs, almost as many as Colt McCoy had THROWING.
Ingram: 1,542 total yards - 15 total touchdowns - done in 13 games
Gerhart: 1,736 total yards - 26 total touchdowns - done in 12 games
Ingram: 30 yards against Auburn, 56 yards against Florida International, 50 yards against Arkansas, 91 yards against North Texas
Gerhart: Lowest yards all year was 82 against Wake Forest. Next was 96 against Oregon State.. all the rest were over 100 yards.
Ingram: Had 1 200+ yard game all season
Gerhart: Had 3 200+ yard games all season
I'm an Ole Miss fan and personally love to see SEC players get awards, and loved seeing Bama destroy Florida and Tim Tebow crying like a little sorority girl on the sidelines which secured his first professional endorsement deal, with Kleenex...
But the Heisman should go to Stanford's Toby Gerhart. No other team in the country had a more valuable player and a more productive player.
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I think I'm now on the NDamokung Suh bandwagon,
simply because I think he’d throw my ass through the floor if I weren’t.
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by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Dec 7, 2009 4:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
How about you get your facts strait bim bam whatever.
Ingram total yards: 1864
Gerhart total yards: 1885
Ingram total TD: 18
Gerhart total yards: 26
Ingram YPC: 6.2
Gerhart YPC: 5.6
You also have to give credit to Ingram for having a huge day against one of the very best defenses in the country at the biggest game of the year and for putting Alabama on his back for the SC game to preserve a perfect season. Gerhart is a great player and I couldn’t argue with him winning, but you clearly don’t know the facts if you say Ingram isn’t close to deserving the Heisman.
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
by Zoltar on Dec 7, 2009 6:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
All I'm saying is watch out,
because Ndamokung Suh just saw you write that. You better start running. Now.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
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by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Dec 7, 2009 6:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Suh, Gerhart, & Ingram are all deserving.
McCoy is not. His lackluster performance and unbelievable stupid clock management (not to mention BS interview) should have cost Texas a shot at the NC. They got saved by a clock replay overruling which isn’t technically supposed to be allowed in the Big 12 according to their rules.
Tebow even getting invited to NY is a travesty. He got owned on the biggest stage in college football. His play this year has been just good. Against Arkansas he didn’t play well and only got bailed out because of multiple BS penalties and Arkansas’ inept kicker.
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
by Zoltar on Dec 7, 2009 6:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh Tebow doesn't even deserve to be first team all-SEC,
let alone get a damn invite to New York.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
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by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Dec 7, 2009 8:43 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You could get yours straight
I noticed you added the receiving statistics, but you seem to have forgotten the passing statistics.
by burntorangehorn on Dec 7, 2009 8:19 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ummm
My facts are straight. I didn’t include receiving yards, only the man up, stop me if you can rushing yards.
Gerhart owns Ingram. <—that’s a period
DAMN IT TO HELL!!! I WAS going to say something nice about LSU... but my clock ran out.
by BimBamOleMissByDamn on Dec 7, 2009 9:12 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
um, you do know that the “total yards” statistic for RB’s includes rushing AND receiving yards, right??? Oh well I guess not. If you’re listing rushing yards then #^&@ing say rushing yards, not total yards. Regardless, the only reason you’d leave out the receiving yards from your post is that Ingram has a significant edge vs Gerhart in receiving yards/TD, and you’re trying to skew the facts to support your arguments against Ingram. I think this is also pretty evident from your retarded comments about the Florida International game where Ingram had 10 carries for 56 yards, 1 rushing TD, and 4 catches for 47 yards before Saban put in the scrubs.
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
by Zoltar on Dec 8, 2009 2:56 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously
Ingram only had 56 yards against Florida International. Was he hurt? Sick? WTF? Heisman my ass.
DAMN IT TO HELL!!! I WAS going to say something nice about LSU... but my clock ran out.
by BimBamOleMissByDamn on Dec 7, 2009 9:14 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
It was FIU...
…so no he did not play much. No real reason to pad the against crappy teams. In fact that is one thing Ingram has done really well. His yards have come in the biggest games, not in scrum time against inferior opponents, while running up the score.
by Kenny483 on Dec 7, 2009 9:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Kenny's right here, BimBam.
We didn’t use Dexter McCluster against scrub teams either.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
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by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Dec 7, 2009 10:02 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
We also didn't use Dexter McCluster
against Alabama.
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by Juco All-American on Dec 8, 2009 9:43 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude...
Don’t be an ignorant fan. All of these candidates are deserving, and to say that Mark Ingram isn’t anywhere near deserving the Heisman is just ignorant. Any of the candidates could win the Heisman, and I wouldn’t have a problem with any of them winning it (except maybe Tebow because he didn’t have a great season. I think he’s in there for what he’s done over his career, which isn’t right. I love Tebow and what he represents, but I’m just looking at this from strictly a view of THIS season only). McCoy, Ingram, Suh, Gerhart, they’ve all had great seasons. If you’re going to say that Ingram doesn’t deserve the Heisman, be able to back it up with statistics. Don’t say he doesn’t deserve it just because you hate Alabama. Ingram had a great year running the ball in the nation’s toughest conference (although I will say as an Auburn fan, I was ecstatic that our defense held him to 30 yards! War Eagle!). And why even point out his lack of yards against the cupcakes? You know good and well he only played about a half in those games while Gerhart played for the entire game every game. Also, you pointed out that Ingram only had one 200-yard game to Gerhart’s three. Um..you do realize what conference and what kind of defenses Ingram is going against every Saturday, right? You should since you’re a fan of an SEC team. After all, he did carve yall up for 140+ yards. Gerhart is a great player and I’d love to see him win the Heisman, but don’t tell me Ingram wouldn’t have 1800+ yards rushing in the Pac-10. I’m sorry, but I just can’t stand ignorant fans that don’t look at things realistically. As I pointed out, I’m an Auburn fan, and it pains me to see Bama going to the national title game! But Mark Ingram is a great running back. He’s rushed for 1500+ yards in the SEC. Please don’t be ignorant and please don’t say things like Ingram isn’t even close to deserving the Heisman. Give the guy props where props are due. Honestly, I think Ingram, Suh or Gerhart takes the trophy home, but whoever ends up winning it won’t get an argument from me. All of these guys have had great years. Don’t let your red-and-blue tinted glasses prevent you from seeing that.
by mspirate on Dec 7, 2009 11:59 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
No red and blue
tint here.. I even said I was glad Bama beat Florida. But in my eyes, and on paper, Ingram is overhyped and doesn’t deserve the Heisman. So go back to your Auburn board until you can learn to stop calling people ignorant just because they don’t hold your point of view.
DAMN IT TO HELL!!! I WAS going to say something nice about LSU... but my clock ran out.
by BimBamOleMissByDamn on Dec 8, 2009 1:53 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Please tell me how 1500+ rushing yards in the SEC is overhyped. I would love to hear this.
by mspirate on Dec 8, 2009 2:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Compared to
Gerhart’s 1,736 rushing yards done in 1 less game than Ingram? Seriously?
DAMN IT TO HELL!!! I WAS going to say something nice about LSU... but my clock ran out.
by BimBamOleMissByDamn on Dec 8, 2009 3:13 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow…Look, Gerhart is a good back. I wouldn’t disagree at all with either Gerhart or Ingram winning it. But Gerhart plays in the Pac-10. It’s a little easier out there. But that’s really not the point here. To say that Ingram is “not even close to deserving” the Heisman trophy is just absurd.
by mspirate on Dec 8, 2009 3:29 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Think about what you’re saying. Imagine Dexter McCluster rushing for 1500 yards and 15 TDs in the SEC and somebody saying that he is nowhere close to deserving the Heisman. Your comments just don’t make sense.
by mspirate on Dec 8, 2009 3:31 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Gerhart still had 25% more carries than Ingram got despite the extra game. 347 receiving yards and 3 TD vs 146/0 for Gerhart.
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
by Zoltar on Dec 8, 2009 3:42 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
BIMBAM why dont you look at number of carries......forget number of games played....Gerhart has 60 + more carries......its all about who is the most productive when they have the ball
"if you disagree... you are free to point your browser elsewhere."-Kleph
by The Voice of Reason on Dec 9, 2009 1:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
If it's all about who
is the most productive when they have the ball, Gerhart blows Ingram’s peewee ass right out of the picture. Thanks for making my case.
DAMN IT TO HELL!!! I WAS going to say something nice about LSU... but my clock ran out.
by BimBamOleMissByDamn on Dec 9, 2009 3:34 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
You are being absurd.
Stawp g’tin tuchee-feelie, zzzEmoGoestzzz. I dun’t lyke noin ur Emoshuns!
by Role Player on Dec 9, 2009 5:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry I posted that on accident...my explanation for why you are absurd:
Calling Ingram “peewee” is more than unfounded. I am not sure if he helped to prove your point by saying that Ingram averaged more ypc than Gerhart.
Besides, it’s Ndamukong “Donkey Kong” Suh who should get it over Ingram.
a) D needs the respect and he has earned it.
b) Ingram will undoubtedly have another chance.
c) Though I would trade championships for Heisman trophies, I think it is fun that Bama has never had a Heisman winner.
Stawp g’tin tuchee-feelie, zzzEmoGoestzzz. I dun’t lyke noin ur Emoshuns!
by Role Player on Dec 9, 2009 5:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ingram has 0.6 more yards per carry
again BimBam shows his ignorance.
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
by Zoltar on Dec 9, 2009 8:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
and one thing you can say about Ingram is that his lack of production in a gamer never lead to a loss. Can’t say the same thing about Gerhart (82 yards, 0 TD in a loss to a terrible Wake Forest team with an atrocious 82nd ranked run defense).
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
by Zoltar on Dec 9, 2009 8:53 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Guys, why waste your breath? We don’t need BimBam or whatever to tell us Ingram deserves to be in consideration for the Heisman to know that. It’s a lost cause. The guy obviously doesn’t like Bama so nobody from Bama, no matter how good of a season they have, is any good. Move on.
by mspirate on Dec 10, 2009 12:04 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh no
He’s good. Just not as valuable or productive as some others have been.
DAMN IT TO HELL!!! I WAS going to say something nice about LSU... but my clock ran out.
by BimBamOleMissByDamn on Dec 10, 2009 2:25 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I just don't see why Tebow is a girl.
He’s more of man than you are – all things considered – and he’d probably beat that @$$ if he weren’t more inclined to turn the other cheek.
Oh ya, and your argument is rather weak as everyone pointed out. I’m all about some Toby Gerhart (ask Ivory Tower) but he still plays in the Pac-10. <——everyone knows that’s a period, kthnxbi
Stawp g’tin tuchee-feelie, zzzEmoGoestzzz. I dun’t lyke noin ur Emoshuns!
by Role Player on Dec 8, 2009 10:12 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Don't dis on the PAC 10
Even LSU could barely get by Washington this year.
DAMN IT TO HELL!!! I WAS going to say something nice about LSU... but my clock ran out.
by BimBamOleMissByDamn on Dec 8, 2009 11:51 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Everyone "barely got by" every team BCS they beat this year.
Except for Auburn and Vanderbilt, that is.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
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by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Dec 8, 2009 11:59 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Terrency Cody drinks Suh
Terrence Cody eats your field goal!
by Wallacewade04 on Dec 8, 2009 1:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
as a milkshake obviously
and if they give the damn trophy to a defensive player on a 4 loss team over the best running back in the SEC on an undefeated team that scored three touchdowns against Florida, then the anti Alabama media bias exists
Terrence Cody eats your field goal!
by Wallacewade04 on Dec 8, 2009 1:10 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Speechless I am.
Ridiculous you are.
Stawp g’tin tuchee-feelie, zzzEmoGoestzzz. I dun’t lyke noin ur Emoshuns!
by Role Player on Dec 8, 2009 2:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ndamukong Suh would knock Terrence Cody into the damn Twilight Zone.
Don’t even kid yourself on this one.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
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by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Dec 8, 2009 1:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
what I was really impressed with
was how Suh really stepped up for his team and helped stop Virginia Tech’s game winning drive and how his great plays kept Texas out of field goal range…
OH, WAIT!
give it to Ingram
and TC plays a completely different style then Suh, and has single handedly kept his team undefeated by devouring two field goal attempts
Terrence Cody drinks Suh's milkshake!
by Wallacewade04 on Dec 8, 2009 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not his fault his offense has a hard time scoring 20 points.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
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by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Dec 8, 2009 4:20 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
seriously Nebraska
that offense was atrocious
I’ll give freaky name all the love in the world … after saturday, until then he’s a scrub
and you know how I feel about scrubs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpF5wOcy7os
Terrence Cody drinks your milkshake!
by Wallacewade04 on Dec 8, 2009 4:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Is no one even considering.....
the fact that without Toby McGu….I mean SpiderMan….I mean whatever Toby plays for that smart school in California, they are 4-8? Without Ingram, Bama is still what….12-0? That has to play a part.
by astaylo1 on Dec 8, 2009 1:51 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Well, in my eyes, this is why I think the Heisman has lost some of its luster. The Heisman doesn’t necessarily go to the best player in the country anymore, it’s goes to the best player on the best team in the country. Which I think is ridiculous. This is purely hypothetical, but let’s just say that Ingram had 800 yards and 7 touchdowns on the year, which where the best statistics of any player on Bama’s team. But Bama was 12-0. Should Ingram still get invited to the Heisman Trophy ceremony because he was the best player statistically on arguably the best team in the country? Now obviously, Ingram’s stats are a lot better than that and he is deserving of the trophy just like Gerhart is. I just can’t stand the fact that when two guys who have similar stats (and Gerhart actually has better stats than Ingram) are compared against each other, the guy from the 8-4 team gets tossed to the side because his team isn’t undefeated. I don’t care if a player is on the worst team in the country, if it’s not his fault and he truly is the best player in the country, give them trophy to him. Having said that, all of these guys are worthy of Heisman consideration, and it would be hard to pick just one guy. I’m glad I don’t have to vote because I have no idea who I would vote for.
by mspirate on Dec 8, 2009 2:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with both of you.
The nebulous “criteria” for the Heisman have become awfully skewed. It shouldn’t just be the best player on the best team, unless that guy is truly the best player in the country. I agree that a great player helps his team win games, which is why the Heisman frequently goes to a guy on a great team. But one player (usually, unless it’s TEBOWOMGWOW!!!!1) can’t win every game. Penalizing Gerhart because he couldn’t singlehandedly prevent 4 losses is ridiculous.
I also think “value to one’s team” should be included every year, if we’re going to include it. When the media is kissing Tebow’s ass (and I mean no disrespect to Tebow, I think he’s a great player and a great leader but the media obsession is ridiculous), they talk about how much he “meant to his team,” how much he willed them to win, etc. But this year, they don’t mention that you could take Mark Ingram out of the Alabama team, replace him with Trent Richardson or any other serviceable back, and they’re still 10-2 at the very worst. Whereas without Gerhart, there is no way that Stanford team has a winning record.
Bottom line: it would be great if there were ANY criteria for the Heisman that were followed consistently.
And to play devil’s advocate for a moment, what if the Heisman weren’t given out every year? What if they only gave it out when there is a player who is so obviously the best in the country that a vote is practically a formality?
by allicolls on Dec 8, 2009 5:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
so what you guys are saying is that Ingram should be penalized because there are so many other great players on Alabama (i.e. “Without Ingram, Bama is still what….12-0? That has to play a part.”), while Gerhart should get the trophy because they couldn’t replace him?
That’s a bunch of hypocritical BS.
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
by Zoltar on Dec 8, 2009 5:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Who exactly are "you guys?"
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Take a picture, trick.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Dec 8, 2009 5:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
mostly astaylo1
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
by Zoltar on Dec 8, 2009 6:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, hate on then.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Take a picture, trick.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Dec 8, 2009 8:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Not what I'm saying at all.
Just saying the criteria should be consistent. If it’s going to be included when there is a favorite candidate who is defined by that characteristic (Tebow), then it should always be included. Or it should never factor in. Personally, I don’t care which, as long as the media stops changing the criteria every year to suit the ESPN candidate-du-jour.
by allicolls on Dec 8, 2009 5:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
No...
What I am saying is that I do not think Ingram is anywhere near as good as what he gets credit for being. I think that he is a very good back. I do not think that he is one of the 5 best players in the country. I think the existance of Richardson and Upchurch prove that. If you took all of Ingram’s carries and gave them to Richardson, took all of Richardson’s carries and gave them to Upchurch and took all of Upchurch’s carries and gave them to whoever else Alabama would have played the stats would look the same.
All I did was ask a simple question. If you are too much of a homer to realize that then you are a lost cause. I dont think that Ingram should win because I do not think that he had the best stats or that he was the most important player. I do not see what is “hypocritical bs” about that statement. I would like to have some one explain to me what about my statement was hypocritical.
by astaylo1 on Dec 8, 2009 8:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Pperhaps it’s not technically hypocrisy, if you don’t care about fairness. The fact is that if Ingram wasn’t there and Richardson had to take over, we don’t know what would have happened. Maybe he would have done better? But since when do we base votes on what might have happened? But lets go with that for a second. If Ingram wasn’t there, then maybe Richardson doesn’t get the 10 yards per carry that Ingram got against South Carolina where he also carried the ball on every possession in the key scoring drive. Maybe he doesn’t set up a key block for McElroy’s sideline dancing first down on an essential drive in the SEC championship game or bust off that 70 yard screen which kept the momentum on our side. Maybe Alabama is heading the Sugar Bowl for the second year in a row instead of playing in the BCS title game.
If you’re going to judge Ingram based on what you THINK would have happened if he was replaced by his backups then you should compare that to what you think the same players would have done in Gerhart’s place at Stanford. Not what you think a bunch of scrubs that wouldn’t make the Alabama scout team would do in his place. That’s the fair comparison. If Richardson was at Stanford then maybe they don’t lose to a 5-7 Wake Forest (82nd in rushing defense) team that kept Gerhart out of the endzone and held him to 82 yards. I’d also wager that Gerhart wouldn’t have cracked 1500 total yards with a talented back like Richardson there to relieve him.
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
by Zoltar on Dec 9, 2009 12:51 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This entire post (Ingram not even close to deserving Heisman) is ridiculous. He’s got 1500+ rushing yards in the SEC! What more do you want from him? Sorry he didn’t rush for 2000 yards….sorry. And I’m an Auburn fan! All of the finalists have had great years and all are deserving. It’s as simple as that.
by mspirate on Dec 9, 2009 1:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I might also add that Ingram broke Bobby Humphery’s single season rushing record for Alabama which has existed for 23 years (something not even Shaun Alexander managed to do), so the idea that he’s just another plug and play running back is bs. Any favorable comparisons between Richardson and Ingram are only an indicator of how supremely talented and full of potential Richardson is. And as far as our OL goes, this was in fact a rebuilding year after having to replace 2 highly drafted/all american and a third all SEC linemen.
What you're seeing is team spirit. It's like the Holy Spirit, but more powerful.
-Hank Hill
by Zoltar on Dec 9, 2009 1:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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