Ladies and Gentlemen, We Have Consensus.
by Ivory Tower on Oct 22, 2009 11:00 AM EDT
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PrintThere is no story. There is no controversy. If there has ever been a grass-roots effort regarding the establishment or disestablishment of a "tradition" this is it. The Student Body's resolution urging that minority of Ole Miss fans - mostly wide-eyed freshmen - who exercise their rights to so chant to not do so anymore for the good of the academic and athletic life of the university is not controversial. The band's unilateral decision to alter a few bars of the song so that the chant no longer flows rhythmically with the song is not controversial. The Chancellor's decision to publicly support the Associated Student Body and the band is not controversial.
There is no controversy. There is consensus.
I was a freshman when Chancellor Khayat and Pete Boone decided to retire Colonel Reb as our on-the-field mascot, so I know what controversy looks like. Grown men - some graduates, but far more of our loyal, but uneducated, fanbase - threatened to withdraw support for Ole Miss. The student body staged an unofficial poll, the results of which were overwhelmingly in opposition to the Chancellor's decision. The conflict ran so deep that we still have no official on-the-field mascot and some grown man walks around - six years later - in a reasonable facsimile of the Colonel Reb garb.
This, my friends, was a controversy.
And what is there now with regard to "TSWRA," as it is colloquially abbreviated? Strong student support for the phrase to go down like the Cutcliffe adminstration in which it was born and the Orgeron administration in which it was fomented. If anything, the chant is most closely associated with a dreary period of Ole Miss football. We have band nerds - real, live Ole Miss obsessives of the highest order - voluntarily changing the rhythm of the song so that the phrase sounds out of place (as if it didn't already). And we have a Chancellor who has done what so many have often claimed is his role in tradition regulation - endorsing the decision of the students.
What we do not have is massive student resistance to the movement to send TSWRA to the dustbin of Ole Miss history. We do not have alumni - even a handful - calling the Lyceum to express their distaste in the decision. My word, we had far, far more outcry when after Elvis failed to make an appearance on the PoweTron - and that "tradition" only lasted half a season.
Practically no one is voicing opposition to this grass roots movement. The vast majority of those who are expressing an opinion agree that the chant is a black eye on the university and a distraction to the athletic program. You have read the same responses across blog and message board land that I have. And I have seen - from the perspective of a graduate student - mixtures of student apathy and support for the Chancellor. To say that strident proponents of the phrase are a "vocal minority" would give them too much credit. Dissent from the consensus - that we would all be better off if the phrase would just die - is muted, at best.
Only the Daily Mississippian and the Daily Journal think this this is a story. Only those removed from the student body see the controversy. Only outside observers find it incredible to believe that students at Ole Miss could be at the heart of something so non-traditional. Believe it.
I am going to stop talking about the chant. I will not comment here or anywhere else about it. If anyone wants to know what I think of it, I will tell them. But I will not further propagate the misconception that there exists two camps on this issue; that there is some conflict. There are not; there is not. There is a broad consensus that this chant should go away, and there is broad support for the students and administration who are cutting the grooves down the path to its non-existence. And, so, if anything more is said about TSWRA here ever again it will be too soon.
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Well, it needs to be a story, and it needs to be changed. And it’s not a minority, unless you have your ears plugged.
But....It is a minority....
I would venture a guess that it is no more than 200-300 people who think that they should be massive d-bags. When that many people all yell something in unison at a time where everyone else is quite, then they sound very loud.
You know what's cool? The 1st ammendment.
I remember hearing that in America we have some sort of freedom to say whatever we want to say. If I decide to yell TSWRA at some point, I can. If I want to boo Pete Boone, I can, and I think it’s wrong for you to tell me what I should or shouldn’t say just because you don’t agree with it.
I was born in Mississippi, and I don't take any stuff from you, and if I hit you on your head, boy, it's got to make it black and blue.
by HolmesReb on Oct 22, 2009 2:11 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Just because
there’s freedom of speech doesn’t mean that non-government entities can’t ask you not to say TSWRA.
Red Cup Rebellion - An Ole Miss Blog
Blame the Baptists.
by Juco All-American on Oct 22, 2009 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
The First Amendmant means that
the government cannot prosecute because of something you said (aside from bomb threats ‘n’ such). The first Amendmant does not make it okay to say whatever you want. Just because you have the right doesn’t mean it’s the right thing to do.
For example, if I were to call my coworkers “motherfuckers” and drop a bunch of racial slurs all over the place, I’d most certainly be fired. I won’t, however, be tossed in the klink for it.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Take a picture, trick.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Oct 22, 2009 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Holmes, you are a wothless fucking moron. stop going to games and cheer for state
it’s retarded assholes like you that have led to this being a national story, and it’s going to be your fault when the song is eliminated altogether. it is not a crusade for freedom. you are in fact perpetuating the widely held belief that mississippians are ignorant rednecks. Fuck you and fuck all of the students who are threatening our traditions. To Hell With L S U. now, before it’s too late and FDWL is lost forever.
by RedStickRebel on Oct 22, 2009 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Honestly guys...
I’ve been to many football games since I graduated back in ‘03, but i’ve never heard TSWRA. I dont know, maybe it was because I wasn’t paying attention, wasn’t listening, or whatever. I did have a feeling that they were underclassmen though(probably freshmen). And while I don’t care what they think/say, I do really hate that 1) this feeds stereotypes of Southern folks like myself as uneducated/inbred (choose one) 2) because of this, the Dixie we’ve all listened to and loved for all these years is changed. Because it has been changed, it almost makes me feel the idiots won! . . . just my take
keep the song, just change the lyrics
sing it elvis style, “his truth is marching on”. Offer the yung-ins an alternative
Change the lyrics?
you mean keep the ACTUAL lyrics. this song ("the battle hymn of the republic) has had words longer than ole miss has been around. if you want something new to say, i agree with redstickrebel: To Hell With L S U! I’ve been saying it for years. Try it next time. It feels so good.
On the matter
I believe “His truth is marching on” is much better. BUT WHAT?? We can’t say that either?! We might offend more people? Well damn folks. We just can’t get anything right can we?
I like the fact that northerners “think” (the educated people up there know the truth. only ignorant idiots believe the sterotypes) with all thier sterotypes. I like it alot. It’s what keeps Ole Miss at around 17,000. I don’t want to atted a college of 30,000 where I have to enter into a lottery to get a student ticket. That would completely suck. They say call some place paradise and kiss it goodbye. So go ahead you southern bashers, make my day. I know the truth.
-Play Hard, Stay Hard
The problem with "His Truth is Marching On"
which is what I always say, is that people don’t say it.
Our students will never do what people tell them to do. If we pass declarations instructing them to say, “His Truth is Marching On,” they will just yell TSWRA even louder.
Red Cup Rebellion - An Ole Miss Blog
Blame the Baptists.
by Juco All-American on Oct 22, 2009 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
The Truth
What is it? Please, enlighten me.
by HighLifeRebel on Oct 22, 2009 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Again, you are not fighting "yankees" trying to steal our traditions
it is you who is destroying our traditions by insisting on chanting TSWRA. You are bashing the south with that chant. just look at a car with that phrase on a bumper sticker. Have you ever seen it on a mercedes? a BMW? a Lexus? has the driver of said vehicle ever come across as educated or employed in a job that doesn’t require some sore of uniform with a name tag?
you idiots are going to eliminate FDWL.
by RedStickRebel on Oct 22, 2009 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Who's Saying We Can't Say "His Truth Is Marching On"?!
You’re using a strawman argument, imagining that somewhere, there’s some evil Yankee liberal who sits around all day thinking up ways to ruin your college experience. If the student body just sang the words to the damn song, nobody would be up in arms about it.
Has anyone honestly said the student body can’t chant “His Truth Is Marching On”? Can you provide us with some links or references to articles saying that the student body will be precluded from saying “His Truth Is Marching On”? If so, I withdraw my snide comments in your direction, but it seems as though TSWRA proponents just enjoy the idea that they’re this beleaguered, persecuted group of outlaws, stickin’ it to The Man.
(Also, not to belabor the point, but the whole idea of “American Trilogy/From Dixie With Love” is recognition of the fact that the Civil War is OVER, that we, as AMERICANS, not Northerners or Southerners, have a shared history and are one nation now.)
by HandsomeSam on Oct 22, 2009 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Thank you.
The song is very symbolic. Chanting TSWRA ruins a bit of that.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Take a picture, trick.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Oct 23, 2009 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Addendum.
My earlier post was in favor of freedom of speech. I still favor it. I do not, however, engage in shouting TSWRA. Why? I don’t want the band to completely stop playing Dixie. I enjoy attending a Southern university and hearing my band play Dixie is part of that. It seems that all things thought of as “Southern” come under attack because of Mississippi’s past, and more and more things that were once mainstays at our university are swept under the rug to please a silent (non-existent?) minority that is offended by them. Many people are probably offended by the fact that 60,000 people curse every time we chant Hotty Toddy. However, Mississippi isn’t nationally thought of as a place where everyone curses. It’s thought of as a place where everyone is racist. So, we don’t have to stop cursing, but we do have to immediately stop doing anything that could in any way be construed as being racist. I don’t like that stereotype, and I don’t like anything that caters to that stereotype. However, I do like hearing Dixie at football games so I, begrudgingly, censor myself. Also, I’m all in favor of “To hell with LSU,” at the end of the song, but somebody probably thinks that’s offensive too.
I was born in Mississippi, and I don't take any stuff from you, and if I hit you on your head, boy, it's got to make it black and blue.
"The south will rise again" isn't construed as racist...
It is racist. Regardless of other meanings (economic prosperity, social prosperity, whatever other things you say “rise again” might mean), it refers directly to the pre-war south, particularly a pre-war south that institutionalized one of the most inhumane, evil, racist acts in this country’s history.
Even if the words themselves aren't racist to all people,
it is a phrase which was used by the Ku Klux Klan. I do not see why this is something people insist upon using in 2009.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Take a picture, trick.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Oct 22, 2009 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair.
The Klan also quoted the Bible quite frequently. Does that mean that the verses that they used from the Bible should be avoided because they are connected to a racist organization?
I was born in Mississippi, and I don't take any stuff from you, and if I hit you on your head, boy, it's got to make it black and blue.
Eesh,
I was hoping it would’t go this far… Let’s keep religion out of this.
Your point is somewhat valid though. And it is appreciated. The thing is, we’ve already opened one can of worms. The bushel of worms involved with Bible scrutiny has yet been unopened on the Cup and I’d like it to remain in such a state.
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Take a picture, trick.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Oct 23, 2009 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions
The Biblie existed in a context completely removed from the issue at hand.
The sentence “The south will rise again” is directly related to a southern desire to return to a pre-war social system, including slavery. Regardless of how many different interpretations you layer onto that sentence, that is the original context, the most well-known context, and the context that matters most. You can’t say the same for any Bible quotes the Klan may have used. Ask yourself this question, would you be against German university students chanting “Seig Heil” at sporting events? Even if they argued that it has other meanings than those associated with their sordid past?
"Sieg Heil" literally means "hail victory."
I mean how can that be offensive, right guys?!
Red Cup Rebellion - Changing the Culture of Ole Miss Athletics
Take a picture, trick.
by The Ghost of Jay Cutler on Oct 23, 2009 8:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Bam!
I must love Emeril Lagasse. I mean, if I say something he said, that means that I love him and share his beliefs, right? It must. Look, I don’t agree that words are racist just because they’ve been used that way before. However, I do agree that we shouldn’t say TSWRA in order to save From Dixie With Love.
I was born in Mississippi, and I don't take any stuff from you, and if I hit you on your head, boy, it's got to make it black and blue.
I apologize if I took your earlier post the wrong way. I’m a bit quick to jump on someone’s ass seeing as how we are likely in the final days of FDWL thanks to the few who continue TSWRA. I’ve been chanting “To Hell With L S U” for awhile now, and I really think that if the entire stadium cheers it, we can drown out the students enough to save the song.
To Hell With LSU, brother. say it loud and tell everyone around you to do the same.
by RedStickRebel on Oct 22, 2009 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Which alumni are calling in favor of changing it?
i dont work in the Lyceum so I wouldn’t know
I must respectfully disagree
I feel there is a controversy over this issue. I also see this being the end of From Dixie With Love. I think the two sides can compromise, and I would like to see a better alternative to The South Will Rise Again. I am a little disappointed in the way we are attacking our on fan base. The cheap shots that were taking at HolmesReb were uncalled for. To me that makes ya’ll look just as ignorant. If you cannot make your point without attacking someone then you are just as ignorant. HolmesReb you really should do your homework my friend before you try to quote the Bill of Rights. How would everyone feel about replacing The South Will Rise Again with Ole Miss will rise again. I feel like that would be better than telling LSU to go to hell every time, no matter if we are playing LSU or not.
by prideofthesouth on Oct 23, 2009 3:12 PM EDT reply actions
Spelling and grammatical errors.
*on (own)
*taking (taken)
*ya’ll (y’all)
It wouldn’t hurt if you’d use commas every now and then, and there’s a period at the end of an interrogative sentence, “How would everyone…?” (Notice the question mark.) There’s also too much redundancy in your post to point out a specific instance, and I hear quotation marks can be quite useful in certain situations. (“The South will rise again”, “Ole Miss will rise again”, etc…) In reference to your proposition that we should end the song with, “Ole Miss will rise again,” I wasn’t aware that we had fallen.
Mistakes and the fact that I was called ignorant aside, I appreciate the fact that you pointed out and disagree with the obvious overreaction to my first post on this thread. Although, before you tell someone to “do their homework,” you should probably master the English language.
I was born in Mississippi, and I don't take any stuff from you, and if I hit you on your head, boy, it's got to make it black and blue.
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